Dead Battery After Software Update

[Murray20c8]

Not sure how much a GM Maintainer can help. It's max 4 amps.

Someone measured the parasitic current draw at various times after stopping Right after locking the door in was 8.5 amps. After ~10 minutes when the controls reduced all significant power it was a very low 10 to 15 milliamps!

I've had many updates and find it works best in my garage where it's connected to my WiFi. Had one early on my 2020 that others also complained would not take. Tried a number of times. Never had a battery issue.

When at the dealer, Tech plugged into my OBD and via there WiFi had to try twice. In finally worked. but when we shut off the car my radio was still playing indicating an update was needed. He said he has had that happen with Chevys. Stopped at a store on the way home radio was still playing when stopped. When I started again, shut it off to test and no indication an update was needed. All others I have done on my own.

I don't have a GM maintainer, but It's not that you need to charge the battery as much as you want to keep the car charged as you do the update. Updates are not supposed to happen if the battery is low.

As mentioned above, updates are not done by wifi. Wifi is used to update apps like Apple carplay or Android auto. Updates are done via cellular though the OnStar connection. (Regardless whether you have OnStar or not). I've done about 4 updates. The first was no issue. The second refused to install about 5 tries before I got the dealer to do it. The third kept the radio on for more than an hour before I intervened, took the car for a drive to charge the battery, plugged in the maintainer and then did the update with no issue. The 4th installed with no issue.

Also some may be interested in knowing that updates are done when GM wants to do it. It won't download again if it fails once. It keeps the download until you release it. (Decline it) Then it could take weeks to get it again.

I believe dealers download updates to their tool and then update through the OBDII port as you say. They can get it over the web. We can not.

[JerryU]

No Jerry, if properly downloaded, you do not need a cellular or Wi-Fi connection to install it because the software package is already stored in the car. It is just like a computer or cell phone, where you can download an update, but you don't have to install until later.

The confusion on this issue relates to the fact that the download process is distinctly different than installation of the download.

While it may be true that some downloads don't install properly, it's not because of the connection, but probably a download that did not complete properly or the car did not meet the conditions required for installation. One of those conditions is a properly charged battery.

All my installations have been successfully done in our detached metal barn with no Wi-Fi or cellular connection. The downloads occurred while I was driving, and I was notified when placing the car in PARK.

Agree IF it downloads the install occurs after. Had a recent one where the software update available message came up when I stopped for lunch in town. Since I knew it would be over an hour I let it load. When I got back in the car and stopped for gas soon after it said update required 3 minutes or some such words. Allowed and when finished filling up it was installed.

Of my many software upgrades all were done with typically the max change on the battery of 80%. On my way back from Town can see the voltage take a step drop to about 13 volts compared to my trip into town where it's typically ~14.5 volts charging to the max 80% (to save energy.) The issue I had with the one update early with my 2020 many were complaining theirs did not load. It was a large one.

[JerryU]

I don't have a GM maintainer, but It's not that you need to charge the battery as much as you want to keep the car charged as you do the update. Updates are not supposed to happen if the battery is low.

As mentioned above, updates are not done by wifi. Wifi is used to update apps like Apple carplay or Android auto. Updates are done via cellular though the OnStar connection. (Regardless whether you have OnStar or not). I've done about 4 updates. The first was no issue. The second refused to install about 5 tries before I got the dealer to do it. The third kept the radio on for more than an hour before I intervened, took the car for a drive to charge the battery, plugged in the maintainer and then did the update with no issue. The 4th installed with no issue.

Also some may be interested in knowing that updates are done when GM wants to do it. It won't download again if it fails once. It keeps the download until you release it. (Decline it) Then it could take weeks to get it again.

I believe dealers download updates to their tool and then update through the OBDII port as you say. They can get it over the web. We can not.

Yep, particularly when I had issues with that large early software update, was well aware of the battery charge level requirement. Also found the option to use WiFi for the updates and have my 2020 connected to mine at home. Since my preference was to have the update start when I was in my garage I elected to link to my WiFi. My router (now Mesh) is in my 2nd floor Man/Cave, Office, Gym and the three car attached garage to the right. So in my case, have my 2020 set to use WiFi. Agree when I have done occasionally, as recently when at a long lunch in town, it can also do it by the car finding a satellite.

I do recall that if you keep rejecting installing an update the radio playing when the car stops warning one is pending will stop and at some point you it was no longer available for you to do yourself (perhaps that has changed.) Now that difficult one (which many 2020 owner's complained would not load) and just recently another the C8 Corvette Tech did load via my ODB port linked to his PC via the dealer's WiFi and GM Service Computer. For the later he reloaded the Infotainment software to eliminate my ~1 year issue of a "NAV SD Card Removed" error. Unfortunately that did not solve the problem. BUT a note he found in the GM Service Computer did get me to the solution, finally. Turned out that error message had nothing to do with the NAV SD Card but was related to my music Flash Drive that initiates using the same Buss.

[Murray20c8]

Yep, particularly when I had issues with that large early software update, was well aware of the battery charge level requirement. Also found the option to use WiFi for the updates and have my 2020 connected to mine at home. Since my preference was to have the update start when I was in my garage I elected to link to my WiFi. My router (now Mesh) is in my 2nd floor Man/Cave, Office, Gym and the three car attached garage to the right. So in my case, have my 2020 set to use WiFi. Agree when I have done occasionally, as recently when at a long lunch in town, it can also do it by the car finding a satellite.

Perhaps I am misreading what you are saying, but the cars operating system updates never come over wifi. They ONLY come over cellular.
Wifi updates are ONLY for the apps.
The car never asks the operator to download the operating system updates. Nor can the operator initiate the operating system software update download.

[Rufus MacBlorf]

My car doesn't do updates, no matter what I try. The last update was August 2021, when I got it from the dealer.

At least I don't have a problem with the battery being drained.

[Foosh]

My car doesn't do updates, no matter what I try. The last update was August 2021, when I got it from the dealer.

At least I don't have a problem with the battery being drained.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that your car has received OTA updates, but they do not install?

It's possible that no update has ever been pushed to your car. When you check for updates, you're checking for app updates, not OTA software updates. Those only get pushed to the VIN and MY(s) they pertain to.

[Rufus MacBlorf]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that your car has received OTA updates, but they do not install?

It's possible that no update has ever been pushed to your car. When you check for updates, you're checking for app updates, not OTA software updates. Those only get pushed to the VIN and MY(s) they pertain to.

No. To the best of my knowledge, my car has never downloaded or installed updates of any sort since I picked it up from the dealer. I added a screenshot, so you can see the date of the last update. I've had no issues with the car, so it's not a big deal. I just find it odd that other people seem to have gotten multiple updates in the meantime.

[Murray20c8]

No. To the best of my knowledge, my car has never downloaded or installed updates of any sort since I picked it up from the dealer. I added a screenshot, so you can see the date of the last update. I've had no issues with the car, so it's not a big deal. I just find it odd that other people seem to have gotten multiple updates in the meantime.

That shows 1 update. I could be wrong, but I believe that dealer installed updates do not show on the about screen. If you take your car into the dealer regularly and they do the updates you may never see one! lol

For reference this is mine I took over a year ago.

[JerryU]

Perhaps I am misreading what you are saying, but the cars operating system updates never come over wifi. They ONLY come over cellular.
Wifi updates are ONLY for the apps.
The car never asks the operator to download the operating system updates. Nor can the operator initiate the operating system software update download.

Below is a Thread John started in 2021. Thought very good. I do have an early 2020 and there were some changes in the way updates work, but believe mine operates this way.

I also copied and pasted another post after John's that said, summarizing:
Have you connected your car to a WiFi router .... If you're at that location, and connected to the WiFi network, I believe it will download over WiFi.

That was my understanding, but perhaps wrong, I recall having to connect to WiFi back in 2020 as NAV stops working as well in my attached 3 car garage with large storage area floor and roof above that. BTW have had a number of updates, only the large one early that after being notified a number of times one was available and being unsuccessful the dealer tech took several tries and finally was successful connecting from his PC via GM Computer and my OBD port. I was with him and took ~30 minutes.


John's Post:
03-13-2021, 05:05 AM
Understanding C8 OTA Updates As Clarified By GM TechLink

This subject has been a mystery to many of us with different issues and factors in downloading the over the air C8 software updates. This GM TechLink explanation to its Technicians will be helpful in at least some ways.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]n250189[/ATTACH]

Originally posted by GM TechLink
ips for Over-The-Air Software Programming

March 12, 2021

Over-the-Air (OTA) software updates (Fig. 1) that are pushed to vehicles remotely continue to expand in frequency and use on GM models. Vehicles using the Global A electrical architecture can support three modules for OTA updates, such as the radio, OnStar, and Serial Data Gateway modules.


Fig. 1


The new Vehicle Intelligence Platform (VIP) electrical architecture, introduced on some 2020 and 2021 model year vehicles, powers a new electronic system that is capable of managing up to 4.5 terabytes of data processing power per hour, which is a fivefold increase in capability over the previous Global A electrical architecture. On vehicles using the VIP architecture, virtually all modules can support OTA updates, which means that the OTA software is not only for the infotainment system.

When an OTA update has been downloaded to a vehicle and is available to be installed, a message is displayed on the infotainment screen notifying the driver of the impending update. The message to accept and install an OTA update will not appear until the minimum values for the battery State of Charge (SOC) and Outside Ambient Temperature (OAT) are met.

OTA Software Download

In order for an OTA update to be pushed to a vehicle, the vehicle must be parked for the entire download process. There is not a notification to the driver that the software update is being downloaded to the vehicle. Battery SOC and OAT values are not checked before a download. These checks are only performed once the software update is downloaded and ready to be installed.

The OTA software download can occur in increments. So if the vehicle is driven during the download process, the download will be paused until the vehicle is parked and download conditions are met again.

Installing an Update

Once the OTA software is downloaded, a message on the infotainment screen will display a prompt to accept the installation. The customer does not need to remain in the vehicle during the installation of the software. However, the vehicle cannot be driven during the installation and certain vehicle features may not be available. It’s not required for the ignition to be ON for the installation to begin.

Installation time will vary based on the size of the update. The average installation will take approximately 15 minutes. (Fig. 2) Depending on the module, it may take longer to complete. The “Accept” message on the infotainment screen will provide an estimation of the approximate installation time.


Fig. 2

Deferring or Declining an Update

When an OTA update is downloaded, customers have the option to defer or decline the installation. The standard policy for OTA software updates is to set the customer notifications to 30 ignitions cycles. If the customer does not act upon the prompts within this counter, the update package is removed from the vehicle.

If a customer ignores the notification, the ignition cycle counter decreases by one immediately.

If the customer defers the installation by selecting the “Remind Me Later” option, the ignition cycle counter decreases by one, but it will not decrease again until after the customer-selected “Remind Me Later” period, regardless of the number of ignition cycles that occur during that period.

If the OTA update installation is deferred by the customer, it can be installed at a later date through the Vehicle Software menu under Settings > System on the infotainment screen. (Fig. 3)

If the customer selects the “Decline Update” option, the update package is immediately removed from the vehicle. In this case, the vehicle will not be re-enrolled to receive the OTA update at a later date, unless the update is a Field Action. OTA updates will not be installed in a vehicle without a customer’s consent.


Fig. 3

Unable to Complete

There are a number of criteria that must be met in order to successfully complete the software update installation on a vehicle. The most common cause of being unable to complete an installation is the State of Charge (SOC) of the 12V battery. If the 12V battery does not meet the minimum SOC requirement of 70 percent or greater along with an Outside Ambient Temperature (OAT) greater than 14°F (-10°C), the OTA update installation will not occur. The colder the ambient air temperature is, the higher the target SOC becomes. To determine the battery SOC for VIP vehicles, go to BCM/12V Battery/Battery Sensor Module – State of Charge in GDS 2.

There may be other conditions that will affect an OTA update installation. If any of these conditions are present, a “Vehicle Conditions Not Ideal” message may display on the infotainment screen stating that conditions are not ideal to proceed with the update installation. These conditions do not indicate a failure; only that the vehicle does not meet all the criteria necessary to complete the OTA update installation. (Fig. 4)

Some customers may comment that the radio appears to stay on or is backlit after exiting the vehicle. If this occurs, it’s a telltale sign that an OTA update is in progress.


Fig. 4

Proper Battery Charging

If a low battery SOC is preventing the OTA update installation, the 12V battery should be charged to meet the target SOC of 70 percent.

On some GM models, connecting the battery charger directly to the 12V battery posts will bypass the Battery Sensor Module, resulting in a default SOC value of 65 percent and a “Conditions Not Met” message.

TIP: The Battery Sensor Module (Fig. 5) is attached directly to the battery negative terminal. It determines the battery condition by calculating the battery SOC, functions, and state of health, which is used to help determine if the 12V Stop/Start system will allow an Auto Stop when the vehicle has come to a stop. To properly charge the battery, the negative lead of the charger must be connected to chassis ground, and not directly to the negative battery post. Connecting to chassis ground allows current to flow through the Battery Sensor Module during charging as well as be monitored. Connecting directly to the negative battery post charges the battery, but the current cannot be monitored by the Battery Sensor Module.


Fig. 5

If a battery is improperly charged, the Battery Sensor Learn will be required to calibrate the Battery Sensor Module. With the ignition off, let the vehicle rest for a minimum of four hours without any interruptions (opening a door, using the key fob, etc.). Verify if the battery SOC is 70 percent or greater using GDS 2 before attempting to continue with an OTA update.


– Thanks to Mike Waszczenko
https://gm-techlink.com/?p=14502


This is another post on John's Thread:
"Have you connected your car to a WiFi router in your home (or a Starbucks, or whatever)? If not, it's going to come over 4G. If you have, but an update comes through when you're not at that location, it's over 4G. If you're at that location, and connected to the WiFi network, I believe it will download over WiFi."

[Murray20c8]

Below is a Thread John started in 2021. Thought very good. I do have an early 2020 and there were some changes in the way updates work, but believe mine operates this way.

I also copied and pasted another post after John's that said, summarizing:
Have you connected your car to a WiFi router .... If you're at that location, and connected to the WiFi network, I believe it will download over WiFi.

That was my understanding, but perhaps wrong, I recall having to connect to WiFi back in 2020 as NAV stops working as well in my attached 3 car garage with large storage area floor and roof above that. BTW have had a number of updates, only the large one early that after being notified a number of times one was available and being unsuccessful the dealer tech took several tries and finally was successful connecting from his PC via GM Computer and my OBD port. I was with him and took ~30 minutes.


This is another post on John's Thread:
"Have you connected your car to a WiFi router in your home (or a Starbucks, or whatever)? If not, it's going to come over 4G. If you have, but an update comes through when you're not at that location, it's over 4G. If you're at that location, and connected to the WiFi network, I believe it will download over WiFi."

The techlink article says "OTA" there is no mention of wifi at all. Wifi is not considered OTA as fas a I know. Also John's understanding at that time was the same as many including myself, but I know for a fact that the car NEVER EVER tries to connect to my internet without me initiating it.

Think about it. GM is very protective of their software. Wifi is completely unsecured. OnStar on the other hand is proprietary and completely safe as far as I know as it is likely encrypted. For third party apps like apple carplay or android auto are of no real concern to GM so they can be downloaded over wifi.

[meyerweb]

The techlink article says "OTA" there is no mention of wifi at all. Wifi is not considered OTA as fas a I know. Also John's understanding at that time was the same as many including myself, but I know for a fact that the car NEVER EVER tries to connect to my internet without me initiating it.

Think about it. GM is very protective of their software. Wifi is completely unsecured. OnStar on the other hand is proprietary and completely safe as far as I know as it is likely encrypted. For third party apps like apple carplay or android auto are of no real concern to GM so they can be downloaded over wifi.

Not saying you're wrong, but do you have any documentation that says WiFi is never used to download OTAs? WiFi clearly isn't needed for OTAs, but that doesn't mean it isn't an option. And WiFi is not completely unsecured. The car will only connect to WPA-2 secured WiFi connections.

WPA2 (Wi-Fi Protected Access 2) is an encrypted security protocol that protects internet traffic on wireless networks. The second-generation of the Wi-Fi Protected Access security protocol, WPA2 addresses earlier flaws and offers more powerful encryption.

The AT&T 4G cellular connection isn't inherently secure either. Security is the the protocol that runs on the wireless network, whether it be cellular, WiFi, Bluetooth, or anything else.

[Murray20c8]

Not saying you're wrong, but do you have any documentation that says WiFi is never used to download OTAs? WiFi clearly isn't needed for OTAs, but that doesn't mean it isn't an option. And WiFi is not completely unsecured. The car will only connect to WPA-2 secured WiFi connections.




The AT&T 4G cellular connection isn't inherently secure either. Security is the the protocol that runs on the wireless network, whether it be cellular, WiFi, Bluetooth, or anything else.

When I say wifi unsecured, I mean it is susceptible to all kinds of issues by either the home owner, the coffee shop wifi maintainer etc. Man in the middle attacks are much easier via wifi I'd think. Routing via cellular is never in the hands of the homeowner in this instance.
There is no documentation I've seen either way other than it says OTA and all updates I've ever heard of have come from Cellular including my own.
One thing I'm not clear on is whether the car checks for updates (which is what I suspect) or whether GM maintains a list of their cars and pushes updates to cars. If pushed, the only real way to do it would be via cellular. If the car checks then yes, it could be via wifi if it was connected, but again if the car checks then why has no one ever reported that they asked for updates and there was an operating system update?

Experience tells us it has to be via cellular. But , no, I do not have any concrete proof.

[Foosh]

When I say wifi unsecured, I mean it is susceptible to all kinds of issues by either the home owner, the coffee shop wifi maintainer etc. Man in the middle attacks are much easier via wifi I'd think. Routing via cellular is never in the hands of the homeowner in this instance.
There is no documentation I've seen either way other than it says OTA and all updates I've ever heard of have come from Cellular including my own.
One thing I'm not clear on is whether the car checks for updates (which is what I suspect) or whether GM maintains a list of their cars and pushes updates to cars. If pushed, the only real way to do it would be via cellular. If the car checks then yes, it could be via wifi if it was connected, but again if the car checks then why has no one ever reported that they asked for updates and there was an operating system update?

Experience tells us it has to be via cellular. But , no, I do not have any concrete proof.

Same here. I've had 4 OTA downloads, and every single one of them has occurred during 50-100 mile non-stop drives to nowhere, with home as both the departure point and the destination. I do them frequently just for recreation. The update hasn't been present when I left, but notification was received as soon as I placed the car in PARK on return to home.

How can that be anything else but a cellular download while the car is in motion?

[JerryU]

Same here. I've had 4 OTA downloads, and every single one of them has occurred during 50-100 mile non-stop drives to nowhere, with home as both the departure point and the destination. I do them frequently just for recreation. The update hasn't been present when I left, but notification was received as soon as I placed the car in PARK on return to home.

How can that be anything else but a cellular download while the car is in motion?

Yep but I believe mine has probably occurred both ways. As mentioned, with my 2020 one of the 1st was a big update that would not load. Got that message and recall a message re something about connecting to WiFi. Did using the password on my home system. Several times when I pull into the garage get a software update message. About a month ago also got a message when I stopped for lunch in town. Since I would be over and hour had no concern my battery level would be an issue as also knew it was charged, probably to the max 80% the system will allow in a daytime drive. When I stopped for gas, soon after I left the restaurant got another message saying a software update will take 3 minutes. Accepted and when I got back in the C8 it was competed. Assumed that was whatever downloaded was installing. Not sure.

It's also possible that some 2020s operated differently as I recall some such statement about a change in the software update process. But don't know.

Re security of download, also would think however it downloads it will check for accuracy of the download before installing.

[Murray20c8]

It's also possible that some 2020s operated differently as I recall some such statement about a change in the software update process. But don't know.

Re security of download, also would think however it downloads it will check for accuracy of the download before installing.

Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. There were times when I absolutely knew there was an update available because it had just failed to install and I connected to wifi and it told me there was none available. Tried several times over the course of about a week and then a week or so later it downloaded again.

Yes, there are checksums to make sure the download completes correctly, but that is not the type of security I meant as I stated above.