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Corvette Today’s News That “Corvette Fever” Returns

Corvette Fever magazine has not been published for a while. But Alan Colvin, a walking encyclopedia of GM cars as well as Corvette, has purchased the rights to Corvette Fever and has revived this publication! https://anchor.fm/steve-garrett/epis...-Colvin-euvkq2. Your CORVETTE TODAY host, Steve Garrett, visits with Alan to talk about the books he's written on Corvette and other GM products, his history with the old Corvette Fever magazine and how he plans to revive the publication. Plus, listen to this podcast and register to win one of 3-two year subscriptions to Corvette Fever that we're giving away exclusively on this episode! Listen to this CORVETTE TODAY podcast and win a subscription to Corvette Fever magazine!!!
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SGTMAJ USMC AUTO & TOY HAULER Joins MECF As A Featured Forum Vendor.

Welcome to SGTMAJ USMC USMC AUTO & TOY HAULER! We are so happy to have you now join us as a MECF Featured Forum Vendor. We can not wait to help your new business grow. We know you will provide a great transport service to our members and others!
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Z06 Potential Patents

As we get ready for the Z06’s debut sometime in the next year, IMO time to brush up on the 23 GM C8 patents — many of which are Z06 potentials: https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...alized-patents
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  • #16
    That works fine in these times of more buyers then cars. In the lean times, with lots of Corvettes and few buyers, why would a dealership order a bunch of Corvettes when they are having trouble selling them? The system, as designed, rewards the dealerships that will take, and sell, lots of Corvettes when other dealerships are unwilling to do so. These big Corvette dealerships make good money when demand is high because they get so many allocations (rewards) but in the lean times they make little money on the discounted Corvettes they are selling. Without them, we might not even have Corvettes to buy, as GM is unlikely to keep producing a vehicle that dealers don’t order. It certainly is a strange system, but the more I have learned about how it works, I can see how the current system accomplishes GM’s goals.

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    • #17
      Anyone shocked at C8 prices should look at real estate right now. Low interest rates and low inventory have combined to drive up the price of even the most dilapidated little shack. Eventually, prices come down.

      Comment


      • #18
        Automobile dealers have a LOT of political clout at the state and local lever. They make lots of contributions to politicians in both parties, and the NADA hires effective lobbyists. In many states it's illegal for a manufacturer to sell directly to the customer and bypass dealers. Tesla gets away with it in some places by not having any dealers at all, but GM isn't going to do away with the dealer network. Direct sales might work for a C8 Corvette, but it's not going to sell Cruzes or Bolts or Silverados.
        Current C7:SunKissed, 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible

        Status 3300, TWP 5/??: 2021 2LT HTC, Red Mist Metallic Tintcoat, two-tone Natural w/ suede inserts, FE2, NPP Nickname TBD

        Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club: https://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org/

        Never grow up - It's a trap.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by 16falcon View Post
          That works fine in these times of more buyers then cars. In the lean times, with lots of Corvettes and few buyers, why would a dealership order a bunch of Corvettes when they are having trouble selling them? The system, as designed, rewards the dealerships that will take, and sell, lots of Corvettes when other dealerships are unwilling to do so. These big Corvette dealerships make good money when demand is high because they get so many allocations (rewards) but in the lean times they make little money on the discounted Corvettes they are selling. Without them, we might not even have Corvettes to buy, as GM is unlikely to keep producing a vehicle that dealers don’t order. It certainly is a strange system, but the more I have learned about how it works, I can see how the current system accomplishes GM’s goals.
          16falcon if Dealers are doing their jobs exceptionally... they are finding and keeping Customers for life. They have the opportunity to build and maintain great service businesses that can far exceed the gross margins they see in the overall selections to sell available to them via their manufacturing partner. They are also on the frontline of market ebb and flow and their feedback to their manufacturer “should” give that partner a good sense of what changes are taking place in the markets. Thus the manufacturer responds and adjusts production accordingly. In the case of GM I seriously doubt down trends would cause them to take down a perennial market leader like Corvette simply because of ebb and flow of the markets. And of course the market trends don’t only effect the Corvette line when they move. My point is the Allocation System disenfranchises potential Corvette buyers. The proof of my hypothesis is in the drop out numbers. Potential buyers get turned off by the long sales cycle without having any idea when and if they are going ever see the Corvette they have virtually built on the GM website and then plunked down $1-5K to “secure” a place in the production line. And yet they have no way of knowing WHERE they stand in that line or WHEN they could expect a delivery of their build. So they move on... and the numbers of those moving on is not small. With the C8 evolution... so far this is not a problem for GM. But those potential “Customer for Life” have gone somewhere else... and in the process they’ve told 10 of their Friends who are also potential “Customer for Life” what its like to be in line for a Corvette...
          202(1 or 2) Arctic White HTC Z51 with all the Goodies 😎

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          • #20
            Originally posted by UCF.Fan48 View Post

            16falcon if Dealers are doing their jobs exceptionally... they are finding and keeping Customers for life. They have the opportunity to build and maintain great service businesses that can far exceed the gross margins they see in the overall selections to sell available to them via their manufacturing partner.........

            ....... The proof of my hypothesis is in the drop out numbers. Potential buyers get turned off by the long sales cycle without having any idea when and if they are going ever see the Corvette they have virtually built on the GM website and then plunked down $1-5K to “secure” a place in the production line. And yet they have no way of knowing WHERE they stand in that line or WHEN they could expect a delivery of their build.
            But I think “IF the dealers are doing their jobs exceptionally” is where the real problems lie. Without the strike and COVID, both events that have wrecked GM’s planning, dealers do have a good idea of where your place in line would be. Unfortunately, most are not doing their job exceptionally, actually, in my opinion, most are intentionally doing an exceptionally bad job of communicating what they know. Often times a dealer who knows he will likely get 10 allocations in a year, and already has 20 people on his list, is still taking deposits and simply telling the new customer that he will “call” when it’s time to place his actual order. Conveniently failing to mention that it will likely be in 2 years, even though he knows that is likely the case. If dealers would just be honest with their customers it would go a long way towards having “customers for life”.

            I disagree with the premise that not having a reward system for dealers who are willing to sell a lot of Corvettes in the slow times would work for GM. GM doesn’t want ebbs and flows in their production, they want the plant to run full tilt all the time, that’s how they make money. Incentivizing dealers to sell those cars is what has worked to keep the plant humming along.

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            • #21
              I like that plan fan48

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by SUNCHASER View Post
                Yesterday I was finally able to attend a Corvette Club meeting at our sponsoring Phoenix area Chevrolet dealership. Meetings were suspended for over a year due to Covid restrictions, so I was anxious to attend and proudly introduce my C8 which I had "finally" acquired in December.

                This dealership had five C8s in their showroom each with an extraordinary "Premium" of $30,000.00 added to the MSRP! I am curious if this mark up is "the norm" in other parts of the country?

                (fyi, I purchased both my 2014 C7 and my 2020 C8 from Mike Furman)
                Even Corvettes that were once at discount are back to MSRP and more. Saw a left over 18 Z late build with new paint and from the new factory is priced at a firm MSRP
                the car was probably 20k or more off at one time. Crazy times some lumber prices are insane the 5-6 dollar sheet is now 40-45 dollars that seem like they are not going down as well, we have huge inflation on some things right now .

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by UCF.Fan48 View Post

                  The proof of my hypothesis is in the drop out numbers. Potential buyers get turned off by the long sales cycle without having any idea when and if they are going ever see the Corvette they have virtually built on the GM website and then plunked down $1-5K to “secure” a place in the production line. And yet they have no way of knowing WHERE they stand in that line or WHEN they could expect a delivery of their build. So they move on... and the numbers of those moving on is not small. With the C8 evolution... so far this is not a problem for GM. But those potential “Customer for Life” have gone somewhere else... and in the process they’ve told 10 of their Friends who are also potential “Customer for Life” what its like to be in line for a Corvette...
                  I'm not sure a direct order site would really solve that problem. Just because your order goes in before mine, doesn't mean your car will be built before mine. Or that the initial TPW won't change, maybe more than once. If GM can build There are all sorts of factors that go into BGA's build schedule, including paint color, availability of supplier materials on schedule (and which may change from week to week), how many convertibles vs. coupes (and eventually Stingrays vs. Z06s vs. E-Rays), and probably more we're not aware of. If your order goes in two weeks before mine, but has front end lift, and the supplier of FEL components can't deliver on schedule, your car will get pushed back, and mine could get pulled forward. GM isn't going to provide customers with TPWs any earlier under that system than they do now, and for the same reason: they simply change too often, and customer get ticked off when the order they thought was going to get build on mm/dd/yy gets pushed to that date + 30 days.

                  I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that the number of people "moving on" isn't small. What data do you have to support that? Based on the forums (which I admit is only a sample, and perhaps not a representative one), many people seem willing to wait, if not happily. There are still people who ordered a 2020 still waiting for a 2021 (because of COVID mainly, not the allocation system. And people who got on a list for a 2021 who are now going to end up with 2022s. Few of them seem to be saying "I'm going to spend $50K more on a Porsche because I'm tired of waiting." Going to a direct sales model wouldn't affect wait times. It might change which buyers "move on," but I doubt it will affect how many. It won't enable GM to build any more Corvettes than they can build now, and won't reduce demand.

                  If anything it might increase the number of people submitting orders, making the waiting list even longer. Without a dealer to filter out looky-loos who have no real intention of buying, you'll see lots of tire kickers signing up online and then not following through. When GM's Corvette web page went live in 2019, more than 40,000 people "ordered" a C8 on the website. Most never actually contacted a dealer to make that order real.

                  And, as I said before, it wouldn't be legal in most states anyway.
                  Last edited by meyerweb; 04-11-2021, 07:55 PM.
                  Current C7:SunKissed, 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible

                  Status 3300, TWP 5/??: 2021 2LT HTC, Red Mist Metallic Tintcoat, two-tone Natural w/ suede inserts, FE2, NPP Nickname TBD

                  Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club: https://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org/

                  Never grow up - It's a trap.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I'm just back from the Ron Fellows Corvette Owners School, where they have about 100 students a week. They have been taking class surveys and our class, like the ones before us, are 30%-35% "New to Corvette" owners. Most if not all are from European brand vehicles coming to Corvettes. Just sayn'
                    2021 C8 HTC 2LT Convertible, Red Mist Metallic, GT2 Natural Interior, Front End Lift, Performance Exhaust.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by meyerweb View Post

                      I'm not sure a direct order site would really solve that problem. Just because your order goes in before mine, doesn't mean your car will be built before mine. Or that the initial TPW won't change, maybe more than once. If GM can build There are all sorts of factors that go into BGA's build schedule, including paint color, availability of supplier materials on schedule (and which may change from week to week), how many convertibles vs. coupes (and eventually Stingrays vs. Z06s vs. E-Rays), and probably more we're not aware of. If your order goes in two weeks before mine, but has front end lift, and the supplier of FEL components can't deliver on schedule, your car will get pushed back, and mine could get pulled forward. GM isn't going to provide customers with TPWs any earlier under that system than they do now, and for the same reason: they simply change too often, and customer get ticked off when the order they thought was going to get build on mm/dd/yy gets pushed to that date + 30 days.

                      I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that the number of people "moving on" isn't small. What data do you have to support that? Based on the forums (which I admit is only a sample, and perhaps not a representative one), many people seem willing to wait, if not happily. There are still people who ordered a 2020 still waiting for a 2021 (because of COVID mainly, not the allocation system. And people who got on a list for a 2021 who are now going to end up with 2022s. Few of them seem to be saying "I'm going to spend $50K more on a Porsche because I'm tired of waiting." Going to a direct sales model wouldn't affect wait times. It might change which buyers "move on," but I doubt it will affect how many. It won't enable GM to build any more Corvettes than they can build now, and won't reduce demand.

                      If anything it might increase the number of people submitting orders, making the waiting list even longer. Without a dealer to filter out looky-loos who have no real intention of buying, you'll see lots of tire kickers signing up online and then not following through. When GM's Corvette web page went live in 2019, more than 40,000 people "ordered" a C8 on the website. Most never actually contacted a dealer to make that order real.

                      And, as I said before, it wouldn't be legal in most states anyway.
                      I’m not advocating a Direct Order site... I strongly believe Exceptional Service Dealerships are a critical success factor to the Auto Industry still... despite what Elon Musk says... I have excellent experience with local Ford, BMW, and GM (where my Vette order is placed) Dealerships... both personal and Buisness. But not “knowing nuttin” is a new and frustrating experience for a new prospective Vette owner... as to the numbers... my personal experience is moving from #12 to #4 in my own case with the fall out accelerating dramatically around the 10 month mark... when I asked our Sales Manager about this he indicated they are seeing 30 to 40% fallout in their three locations after 10-12 months... When I talked to Mike Furman he did not quote a number but indicated it was substantial in their case. Maybe my research is outlier? What data do you have meyerweb? I consider you one of the finest resources on this Forum! Appreciate everyone’s feedback on this issue.... especially you veterans. I know this is the way things have been done for a long time at the Corvette Works... I just think those of us who are paying the bills deserve a communications process that is more open to us to clarify our expectations. This Forum is of great value to me as a prospective new Vette owner as I have stated in the past here... but I am puzzled as to why so many of veteran Vette owners defend the current system.... Oh wait! I’m a UCF Fan.... I will defend almost ANYTHING that happens at UCF except maybe armed robbery...😎 (That said this Forum could be a strong advocate for change...IMO.)
                      202(1 or 2) Arctic White HTC Z51 with all the Goodies 😎

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by UCF.Fan48 View Post

                        I’m not advocating a Direct Order site... I strongly believe Exceptional Service Dealerships are a critical success factor to the Auto Industry still... despite what Elon Musk says... I have excellent experience with local Ford, BMW, and GM (where my Vette order is placed) Dealerships... both personal and Buisness. But not “knowing nuttin” is a new and frustrating experience for a new prospective Vette owner... as to the numbers... my personal experience is moving from #12 to #4 in my own case with the fall out accelerating dramatically around the 10 month mark... when I asked our Sales Manager about this he indicated they are seeing 30 to 40% fallout in their three locations after 10-12 months... When I talked to Mike Furman he did not quote a number but indicated it was substantial in their case. Maybe my research is outlier? What data do you have meyerweb? I consider you one of the finest resources on this Forum! Appreciate everyone’s feedback on this issue.... especially you veterans. I know this is the way things have been done for a long time at the Corvette Works... I just think those of us who are paying the bills deserve a communications process that is more open to us to clarify our expectations. This Forum is of great value to me as a prospective new Vette owner as I have stated in the past here... but I am puzzled as to why so many of veteran Vette owners defend the current system.... Oh wait! I’m a UCF Fan.... I will defend almost ANYTHING that happens at UCF except maybe armed robbery...😎 (That said this Forum could be a strong advocate for change...IMO.)
                        Mike Furman (from whom I bought my C7 and (pending) C8 says a 30% drop out rate has been typical for all new Corvettes models over the years, and the reasons are many. Many buyers put deposits at multiple dealers and then cancel all but the first one to get an allocation. Some drop out because of financial, health or other personal reasons, or because the wife says "no." We simply can't assume that people are dropping out because they've given up. If your dealer says 30 to 40%, that doesn't seem atypical. Because the C8 is so hot, I suspect that even more people than normal put down multiple deposits. I don't have any hard data to support that, but plenty of people have admitted to doing that online.

                        I'm still not sure what process would resolve the issue of uncertainty. Especially in the year 2020, with COVID shutdowns, supplier shortages (mostly due to COVID), shipping container shortages affecting the supply chain, chip shortages..... Your salesmen could have put your order into Workbench in January of 2020, gotten an estimate from GM that your order would be built in 8 months, and had that estimate change 6 times by now. In fact, when I put my deposit down in January of 2020, Mike told me 8 to 10 months. My projected, estimated, preliminary TPW is now late May, or 17 months after deposit. No one could have predicted the COVID impact. In a normal year, Mike's estimate would probably have been pretty accurate.

                        I'm not sure we're defending the current system as recognizing there really isn't a likely alternative. In normal times the system works fine. And rewarding large dealers with more allocation isn't going to change. Joe's Chevy, which averages 6 Corvettes a year isn't suddenly going to be allowed 100 allocations at the expense of Big Deal Chevy, which sold 800 Corvettes each of the last 10 years. The "veterans" recognize the last two years, between the strike and Covid, are an anomaly. And bigger customers ALWAYS get rewarded, in any business. In construction, bigger companies get better prices. Same in retail (Costco doesn't pay the same wholesale price for an appliance that Mom and Pop's Appliance Store does. Nor dpes Best Buy pay the same wholesale price for TVs as John's TV Repair and Sales) Auto manufacturers are generally barred from giving some dealers a better price than others (there's that lobbying again), so bigger dealers get rewarded with more stock / allocations. That's the real world, and it's not going to change. And nothing prevents a buyer from purchasing from a large dealer. GM has the courtesy delivery program, so you can order from Kerbeck or Criswell and have the car delivered to your local dealer. I'll admit GM doesn't publicize that very well, and your local dealer is probably not incentivized to tell you about that option.

                        Is it frustrating? You bet. Am I frustrated? Yeah. But I don't really see a realistic alternative to the current allocation system. GM wants to encourage dealers to sell more, and rewards dealers that do. I'm pretty sure that Joe's Chevy, which only seels 6 Corvettes, but 600 pickup trucks, gets rewarded with more pickup truck allocations than a dealer that hardly sells any trucks. I had an acquaintance who owned a Ford dealership. He complained to me that he could get all the cars he wanted, but had a hard time getting as many trucks as he would like. This was 20+ years ago, so it's nothing new.

                        What I would like to see is better customer access to data once an order is actually accepted for production (status 3000), but even there I understand why GM might not want to do it. The concierge used to give out TPWs at that status. But so many customers ignored the "T" (tentative), and started yelling at the concierges when the date got pushed back, they no longer provide that data until the build is actually scheduled (3400). Sometimes we (the customers) are our own worst enemy. Certainly, though, once the order hits 3400 we should have a much easier way to track progress from build to delivery. THAT is something GM totally fails at.

                        Anyway, my 200 cents worth. I understand where you're coming from, and empathize.

                        Oh, and thank you for the compliment.
                        Last edited by meyerweb; 04-12-2021, 09:37 AM.
                        Current C7:SunKissed, 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible

                        Status 3300, TWP 5/??: 2021 2LT HTC, Red Mist Metallic Tintcoat, two-tone Natural w/ suede inserts, FE2, NPP Nickname TBD

                        Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club: https://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org/

                        Never grow up - It's a trap.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I ran into a dealer Markup scenario recently on a Ford Raptor. Local dealer, Phil Long Ford wanted $10,000 "Market Adjustment"

                          Told sales man there was no way on earth I would pay it and he nonchalantly told me made no difference, someone would.

                          Not an issue. Drove literally 30 miles away and got one at exactly sticker price with a Clear Bra and window tint added.

                          Then went on all my social media outlets and let everyone in my sphere of influence know.

                          Great business model, over time catches up with them.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            That $30,000 markup is a little low compared to my local dealer.
                            $77,700 Red Mist 1LT HTC, buy it now price: $140,000

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I’ve heard the Raptor stories as well... I purchased my last personal 150 in 2017 just after Ford went aluminum... Big backlog and long sales cycle. 7 months from order to delivery... arrived very close to their original delivery target. Was updated from day one on status and whether they thought they would deliver on their original delivery schedule. BMW ... same including the i8 which was well over a year... Yes the Vettes are a special animal... and strikes and pandemics are category 5 hurricanes to production schedules. Just think there’s an opportunity for GM to look through the Customer’s eyes once and a while and maybe tune up their processes to increase customer focus. That’s my sermon... I’m sticking to it!😎
                              202(1 or 2) Arctic White HTC Z51 with all the Goodies 😎

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by STVDMAN View Post
                                That $30,000 markup is a little low compared to my local dealer.
                                $77,700 Red Mist 1LT HTC, buy it now price: $140,000
                                I'm surprised you haven't snapped it up!
                                Current C7:SunKissed, 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible

                                Status 3300, TWP 5/??: 2021 2LT HTC, Red Mist Metallic Tintcoat, two-tone Natural w/ suede inserts, FE2, NPP Nickname TBD

                                Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club: https://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org/

                                Never grow up - It's a trap.

                                Comment

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