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The final word on whether to z51 or not from Tadge Juechter

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  • Originally posted by electroVette View Post

    My point is that if you won't use Sport or Track then you don't need the FE4 suspension. Tour only gets you near the comfort of the base suspension, it doesn't give you more comfort than the base.
    How do you know this? They have not started to build the C8

    Comment


    • GM is claiming the cooling on the C8 can handle pretty much anything you throw at it, short of Mid-East 140F type temps. For the C7, the high temp race track test was conducted at a temp in the mid-eighties (I want to say 86, but am not positive.) For the C8, that's been raised to 100F with the AC running. The thermal management engineers at Carlisle, in response to a question from the audience, said it could handle two hours of stop and go traffic in high temps, but didn't provide more specifics.

      My C7 (not Z06) has handled 4th of July parades with temps in the 90s without any issue.Don't know about temps in the 1-teens. My only experience with that was a Chevy rental car in Vegas with the mercury at 117. It struggled to keep the interior reasonable, but didn't overheat.
      SunKissed, my 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible (One of about 40)

      Purchased 5/2/2015,
      >33,000+ miles

      Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club. Check us out http://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org

      Comment


      • I keep reading the same comments that the Z51 is not needed unless you track. Some are attributing this as a direct quote to Tadge. Perhaps so, but perhaps not.

        A ton of my friends and I who only are on the track at Spring Mountain are getting our C8’s with Z51. As to why, the Z51 package is a great one, one that we will enjoy and use for our spirited Corvette country, curvy corner carving.

        Click image for larger version  Name:	BFA7F514-B4AC-4A5C-9FC8-523A4B2ABD87.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	138.4 KB ID:	67289


        Can someone who has the time, find and copy/post verbatim Tadge’s comments about. What did he exactly say please?

        When that exact verbiage is found and posted here, let us all remember that if he said something like that one does not need the Z51 to do 98% of one’s driving and still enjoy oneself (or something of that order), same can be said of my WRX that costs half as much as the entry C8.

        GS7 Elkhart Lake Blue, HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5ZZ high wing; 5VM vis CF ground effects pkg; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards.

        Lifetime, annual contributors, and 20+ year members of National Corvette Museum.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by dev23007 View Post
          can someone please explain to me the benefits of FE4 and this whole magnetic rides suspension. Pros/Cons?
          dev23007, While an old, old video, made in the C5 days, this Chevrolet video demonstrates to me conclusively that mag ride is a very useful improvement in handling — better handling that is not only used on smooth tracks, but the mess of rough roads many of us drive on daily. This is the first generation of GM’s mag ride shown in the video.



          How good is GM’s mag ride? The previous gen three GM mag ride was purchased by both Aston Martin and Ferrari for years, and installed in every one of their street cars. True that to say money, Ferrari developed their own three years ago, but Aston Martin and others still use in their sports cars.

          All that previous paragraph was the third gen mag ride, and as we have seen, GM has improved it and the C8 now has the 4th generation mag ride.

          The cons of earlier mag ride was that there was some shock leakage (but I never had it, nor did most every other C67/C7 user and replacing those shocks out of warranty was expensive. However, in talking with a key C8 suspension engineer, he noted that they were aware of those sporadic leakage issues and re-designed/improved the C8’s mag ride shocks.

          My ordered C8 has been ordered containing the FE4 Z51 with mag ride suspension. I will not be tracking my car. But I do drive on poor roads more than some of the time, and I love spirited country curvy corner driving.
          GS7 Elkhart Lake Blue, HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5ZZ high wing; 5VM vis CF ground effects pkg; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards.

          Lifetime, annual contributors, and 20+ year members of National Corvette Museum.

          Comment


          • good video explanation of the mag ride John

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ltomn View Post
              I am buying the Z51 purely to get the Magnetic Shocks. If the magneto rheological shocks and ride were available without the Z51, I'd have done that.
              Ditto. Learned my lesson the hard way with my non-Z51, non-mag C7.

              Comment


              • I have a C5 with the early version of the mag ride shocks. They went out (leaking seals). Dealer said they could install more that would have been over 5K. We put in some standard shocks C6 era, and still driving the car. I would say those have little resemblance to what you will be buying in the C8. I will pass on the Z51 for a variety of reasons of the way we will enjoy the car. When I retire further south, it will be a Z for me.

                Comment


                • Listen we were so crazy as we heard the z51 c8 went sub three seconds that there were many conversations where some people may have been incorrectly advised....in good faith but if its true the c8 standard model does zero to sixty in 3 seconds flat...and the owner is never going to track the car and the chief engineer suggested that the performance difference of the five grand option was really more about a transmission cooler on the right side rear vent etc...

                  im glad this discussion came out...(jokingly I coukd say more z51 for those of us who actually want it but thats not it)

                  we learned or heard via the internet from someone who spoke with Tadge Juncter new information that was pertinent to suggest the z51 Option may have evolved in the c8 from what the z51 option was in previous generations,

                  The z51 is heavier, its got two or three shifts to sixty mph...a 10 mph lower top speed if that matters and its all of one tenth of a second quicker of the performance data we saw leaked out ...

                  could it be the z06 overheating on the track (i believe was improperly bled s;c intercooler prep before the track but thats another discussion)


                  fwiw i believe the corvette team was determined that the cooling capacity of the c8 z51 ON THE TRACK was above reproach and that in fact was the focus of the c8 z51 package..this time around.

                  i could be wrong...none of us know anything yet...

                  we are all just making educated guesses.

                  that was my reasoning for posting up this thread once the lightbulb went off from reading someones quote of what Tadge said..and reading the test data copied and posted on the web a few days ago...

                  the performance difference according to that data seems like almost nothing if we are talking one tenth of a second...to 60...

                  the braking distance is bullcrap and will in my opinion prove out to be around 91 feet for the c8 z51 and 98 ft for the standard car tops on a/s radials... in the same test that got the c7 z51 down to sixty in 90 ft...give or take a few feet...

                  sorry guys if we did a spin ...but when the chief engineer keeps saying the performance is so close...the top speed is higher, the weight is lower...

                  i really got the feeling after the c7 z06 and even z51 a8 overheating on the track...

                  this generation c8 z51 is all about never having to hear about overheating again...(from 86 degrees to 100 degrees became a priority for the engineering team)

                  just my opinion and please accept my apologies for any confusion...

                  we will know for sure one way or the other once the car gets tested by the auto magazines.

                  im buying z51 fe4 becaise Im dreaming This time around Im going to the track (and gm might warranty the z51 for track use with this new generation as well..but we dont even know that yet)

                  i said from day one I like the heavy duty packages as a priority for me...

                  for many of you it may not be important and I can respect that ...

                  just my opinion.
                  Last edited by JB; 09-03-2019, 03:09 PM.
                  Torch Red exterior/ black interior z51 FE4 1LT (only two options)

                  Comment


                  • There's no right or wrong answer. It all depends on one's priorities, wants, and budget. But to think the Z51 is going to offer some huge advantage on the street flies in the face of reality. If you're driving so hard that the base C8 isn't adequate, you need to get off the street and onto a race track before you kill someone. But if you think the Z51 is cool, like the idea of heavier duty cooling, or bigger brakes, or slightly stickier tires or think the spoiler is the best looking part of the car, it's your money, spend it as you wish.

                    OTOH, if you think the Z51 is vastly overrated or overpriced, and would rather put your money into a nicer interior or more gadgets, that's fine, too. Again, it your money, and you're the one who's going to live with your choices.

                    Just don't anyone in either group criticize someone who chooses a different set of options. Saying it's not a real sports car if you don't get Z51 is insulting to those who don't want or need it. Telling someone that the Z51 is a waste of money if they're not going to track the car is equally insulting. Chill.
                    SunKissed, my 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible (One of about 40)

                    Purchased 5/2/2015,
                    >33,000+ miles

                    Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club. Check us out http://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by electroVette View Post

                      My point is that if you won't use Sport or Track then you don't need the FE4 suspension. Tour only gets you near the comfort of the base suspension, it doesn't give you more comfort than the base.
                      Actually, the MRC (FE4) in TOUR mode is designed to have a slightly softer ride than the base suspension of a non-MRC car. I read this somewhere in Chevy literature or possibly it was mentioned on the night of the reveal of the C8. Not sure where I learned this but it stuck with me. So, if you are looking for the most comfortable (soft) ride in a C8, you go with the Z51 and MRC option. Again, your pocketbook could dictate how comfortable your ride needs to be.

                      Comment


                      • Somehow, after spending the $$ for the Z51 PKG ............. The added cost of the MSRC is minimal IMHO ........
                        Ordered from Mike Furman @Criswell: 2020 C8 1LT, Ceramic Matrix Gray Metallic, GT1 Adrenaline Red Seats. Splash Guards. Corvette Museum Life Member

                        Comment


                        • The available options for a C8 cost peanuts compared to options for a Porsche or Ferrari. The parking camera for a 488 Ferrari costs $2,700, an optional fire extinguisher costs 1000. If you can afford it and you want it, get it.
                          Last edited by WillRockwell; 09-03-2019, 06:08 PM.

                          Comment


                          • Exactly
                            Ordered from Mike Furman @Criswell: 2020 C8 1LT, Ceramic Matrix Gray Metallic, GT1 Adrenaline Red Seats. Splash Guards. Corvette Museum Life Member

                            Comment


                            • I have some observations after listening to Tadge in the Z-51 video thread:

                              He has a little bit different story to tell, he said the new C8 with Z-51 FE4 was the dest DRIVING corvette ever! No hesitation, no marketing speal...THE BEST DRIVING CORVETTE EVER!

                              Guys why would Ferrari have it on every car? IT FREAKING ROCKS!!! Doesn't matter if your diving on a track or getting on it on the highway or around a corner it works all the time giving the occupants the best possible ride if you have it set to the appropriate setting for the driving situation. If you have Mag Ride in your current car go over a really rough on or off ramp with it at speed then without it at the same speed and I guarantee you can feel the difference its huge in some cases - big bumps.

                              Retired Corvette Ride and handling Engineer Jim Mero was at C at C and was upgrading the Mag Ride in C6's to the 2019 C7 Z-51spec. Freaking AWESOME!!!
                              - If you have a C6 go to his website! He can upgrade your car and its less than 500.00.

                              Also, with Z51 Tadge said the main radiators are bigger in diameter than the non-Z51 car. That is HUGE! Anyone here drive their car in the heat?
                              Bigger brakes...Stopping the car 7-8 ft faster (not yet confirmed by GM)
                              Lets not for get 14 speakers!!! 2 10s for bass in that little cockpit is CRAZY!
                              Vette's owned: 99 Sebring Silver Convert - 10yrs, Just SOLD my 2008 Crystal Red Convert,w/cam, longtubes and Vortech supercharger for new C8 - On order from Kerbeck
                              C8 Spec: Torch Red, 2LT, Z51,FE4,E60,CF7,FA5,AH2,HUL,TUL,Q8P,SC7,ERI,R8C

                              Comment


                              • I think any conclusions about the value of Z51 and FE4 in particular, based on prior experience with those options on front engine Corvettes, is spurious. This is an entirely different platform, and the rear suspension, for the first time, involves coil springs over shocks, not a transverse leaf spring. Plus, the passenger compartment is now closer to the front axle, giving an entirely different ride experience and handling perception.

                                Yet another reason, (on top of waiting for the convertible) so sit on the sidelines for a year while the first wave of buyers get their cars and report back their findings.

                                Comment

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