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Z06 Potential Patents

As we get ready for the Z06’s debut sometime in the next year, IMO time to brush up on the 23 GM C8 patents — many of which are Z06 potentials: https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...alized-patents
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Me = c8

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  • Me = c8

    The assumption seems to be that the ME is just another model added to the Corvette line running down the assembly line next to the FE's. Also that the ME may not even be called a C8. That the ME will be this high end $150,000 model.

    That the C8 will be the next generation of FE Corvettes.

    I propose this that actually the ME is the C8 and the FE is dead. GM's next generations of Corvette will be all ME's only.

    Here's why I'm saying this, it would be very difficult if not impossible to build a FE and ME car on the same assembly line so that would mean GM would have to build a separate assembly line just for the ME and there has been no solid rumors of GM doing this.

    To keep the FE would mean GM having to build 5 different Corvette models at the same time, Stingray, GS, Z06, ZR1 and ME. Not to mention all the extra logistics that go with having 2 different Corvettes.

    Has anyone seen any C8 FE test cars? Even any rumors of such?

    Also we've seen talk about at least 3 engines for the ME, 400+, 600+ and 900+ this would make sense if you look at it this way.

    400+ for the ME base model like the Stingray
    600+ for the ME Z06 model
    900+ for the ME ZR1 model

    So I am saying this: C8=ME

    FE is dead.
    2015 Z06 CR/TR 1 of 3
    Lifetime Member of the National Corvette Museum c/o 1 1/4 acres

  • #2
    Thanks for your clearly interesting ideas. FWIW, I agree with most of them. I can add however, having worked on an auto assembly many decades ago, we sometimes built, back to back at a rate of over 50 per hour, a sedan, then a pick up, then a box van, then even a school bus, then a medium duty truck, again nose-to-tail, so while I agree with a lot of what you are noting, especially that there will not be a second assembly line in the Plant, I respectfully have a diffferent point of view as to whether FE’s and ME’s could go down the line back-to-back.
    GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

    Comment


    • #3
      Is the ME the C8? That is a darn good question. I started to write this question in a new thread yesterday. Here is that first draft.

      A year ago, a little birdie whispered that the mid engine Corvette was not going to be a C8, specifically saying something catchy, “that a ME is not a C8, nor the reverse.”

      Yet, things have changed. Many, many things have changed, sometimes within the same week; first I heard “there will be no soft top during the ME’s time,” then literally three days later, by someone else, I was told that “there will be a soft top convertible later on during the generation.”

      We began to wonder if the CAD renderings and the two within-the-Plant front and rear fascia renderings, got us “too close,” and GM was starting on a deliberate mis-information campaign.

      Finally, someone within GM acknowledged early this summer that, “yes things are changing.”

      Earlier this year, we heard Mark Reuss publicly call the next generation Corvette a “C8.”

      https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...ark-reuss-mean

      In that April 23rd video, with Mark standing in front of a row of ZR1’s at its April 23rd press track day at Road Atlanta, his exact words were, “This is the car. This is the end of the C7. And we are very proud of the C8.”

      What did he mean, was something we discussed in that thread.

      It leads us back to our other thread:

      https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...all-the-me-the

      Or as some fine soul commented, “chasing our tails, while we waiting for the real skinny.”

      Perhaps as soon as nine days from today:

      https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...l-if-i-were-gm

      And even at September 8th Corvette Racing dinner where Tadge, Kai, Kirk and more are coming from GM, if we hear anything at all, it would be the proverbial partial answer...

      “We will reveal the next generation Corvette at “X” (location), on “Y” (date), still giving us not a clue as to whether the ME becomes known as the C8 — but nicely that would give us a defined end date when we learn massively more about the ME, or will it be about the C8.

      Or, are those two terms one and the same?
      GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

      Comment


      • #4
        I guess the best answer here is "we shall see".
        2015 Z06 CR/TR 1 of 3
        Lifetime Member of the National Corvette Museum c/o 1 1/4 acres

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        • #5
          This topic seems to get people really riled up on that other forum. Thank goodness we have good moderation along with moderate people here.

          My belief is that GM will listen to the market, and the market that I can observe is that C7's are not selling. My dealer cannot unload C7's. They now have what must be close to a record for them, 31 new 2019's in stock. I've seen inventory rising this year with few sales. In my years of dealing with them I've never seen close to that number in stock. 10 or so in inventory would be normal.

          This is no doubt a sensitive topic for dealers to address. It would be most interesting to see monthly sales numbers for C7's.

          I'm going to agree with the OP that the ME C8 will simply replace the C7.

          2020 C8 Corvette.D.O.B 2/03/2020
          Shadow Grey Metallic on Black
          2LT, Z51 + MRC. GT1 seats.
          Spectra Grey Tridents.
          Carbon flash mirrors and spoiler.

          Comment


          • #6
            We have seen, thanks to CorvetteBlogger, that for the first seven months of this year, sold 14,112 new Corvettes in the U.S.

            Overall new Corvettes sales within the country are down 25.2% this year (compared to last year’s equivalent time period), and down in Canada over 52% YoY.

            http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2018/...gh-august-1st/
            GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by redc7z06 View Post
              The assumption seems to be that the ME is just another model added to the Corvette line running down the assembly line next to the FE's. Also that the ME may not even be called a C8. That the ME will be this high end $150,000 model.

              That the C8 will be the next generation of FE Corvettes.

              I propose this that actually the ME is the C8 and the FE is dead. GM's next generations of Corvette will be all ME's only.

              Here's why I'm saying this, it would be very difficult if not impossible to build a FE and ME car on the same assembly line so that would mean GM would have to build a separate assembly line just for the ME and there has been no solid rumors of GM doing this.

              To keep the FE would mean GM having to build 5 different Corvette models at the same time, Stingray, GS, Z06, ZR1 and ME. Not to mention all the extra logistics that go with having 2 different Corvettes.

              Has anyone seen any C8 FE test cars? Even any rumors of such?

              Also we've seen talk about at least 3 engines for the ME, 400+, 600+ and 900+ this would make sense if you look at it this way.

              400+ for the ME base model like the Stingray
              600+ for the ME Z06 model
              900+ for the ME ZR1 model

              So I am saying this: C8=ME

              FE is dead.
              Well, there are two completely different points in your post.

              First, is the ME the C8? Almost certainly. More than one GM executive has made recent comments about the C8, and there's only one new Corvette coming soon.

              Second, is the FE dead? Not likely, and certainly not based on the statement you wrote:

              it would be very difficult if not impossible to build a FE and ME car on the same assembly line
              This simply isn't true. Almost every auto plant in the world now makes multiple models on the same assembly line, intermixed. 14 years ago I watch a Toyota assembly line in Japan. One car would be a Corolla, the next a Crown, then a couple of Camry's, then a small minivan, etc., etc. That was 14 years ago! Intermixing completely different cars on the same line is commonplace, and GM stated publicly that was one of the capabilities of the new line.

              And there is ample evidence GM intends to continue building the C7 for a couple more years. Probably the strongest is that the company that makes the body panels for the C7 publicly stated that they needed to expand their plant so they could make panels for an all new car while continuing to manufacture C7 panels for 2 additional years. While GM could always change it's mind, the fact that the company making the panels invested hundreds of millions of dollars expanding their plant says GM assured them they would have reason to do so.

              And sales figures show that the best selling C7 is the base Stingray 1LT. IOW, the cheapest model. Given that the ME will certainly be more expensive than the C7, GM will be walking away from a significant number of price sensitive buyers. Where will they go? GM sure wouldn't want to see them buying Mustangs instead of Corvettes.
              Last edited by meyerweb; 08-30-2018, 02:39 PM.
              Current C7:SunKissed, 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible

              Status 3300, TWP 5/17: 2021 2LT HTC, Red Mist Metallic Tintcoat, two-tone Natural w/ suede inserts, FE2, NPP Nickname TBD

              Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club: https://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org/

              Never grow up - It's a trap.

              Comment


              • #8
                You make some good points meyerweb and I will pull back on my statement about the difficulty of building FE's and ME's on the same line and say it's possible. However there is still the issue of volume GM has in the past been very reluctant to add more shifts and if they don't trying to meet the demand of what could be 5 different models of Corvette will be tough.

                Of course GM could be making those body panels to support the current population of C7's going forward as spares or at least some of them.

                Also my statement above is of course just my opinion of how I visualize where I think GM is going and not based on fact. I'm just giving what I see is a different perspective of one possible direction but like others have my sources as well.
                2015 Z06 CR/TR 1 of 3
                Lifetime Member of the National Corvette Museum c/o 1 1/4 acres

                Comment


                • #9
                  What if GM is not just making a “jump shift” in bringing out the mid engine Corvette (after 59 years of unfulfilled ME Corvette prototypes), but also working on the philosophy that the best amount of product to sell is one less than there are buyers, e.g., stop discounting the brand’s value by overproducing Corvettes, then having to subsidize thousands and thousands of sales annually during the last 1/3 of a generation with flex cash incentives, instead doing exactly as BGA Plant Manager Kai Spande explicitedly told us at NCM (in a video still on YouTube),

                  Rightsizing Corvette production for the entire generation!”
                  GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by John View Post
                    Thanks for your clearly interesting ideas. FWIW, I agree with most of them. I can add however, having worked on an auto assembly many decades ago, we sometimes built, back to back at a rate of over 50 per hour, a sedan, then a pick up, then a box van, then even a school bus, then a medium duty truck, again nose-to-tail, so while I agree with a lot of what you are noting, especially that there will not be a second assembly line in the Plant, I respectfully have a diffferent point of view as to whether FE’s and ME’s could go down the line back-to-back.
                    If this could be done "many decades ago" with the plant technology of the day, consider all the advancements in robotics & computerized production lines we have achieved.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by meyerweb View Post
                      Second, is the FE dead?
                      If GM is dropping the Manual transmission in order to streamline production and reduce costs, why would they then "unstreamline" the production by producing a ME and a FE variant? Do you think that there will continue to be demand for a FE given that you can get a ME? I don't see it unless the ME is a 2-3XBase price halo car.

                      Vin # 2539
                      Torch Red LT2 Z51

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Lot of smart analysis on this thread. If only we could get some definitive answers from GM.
                        GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I hope the reveal is before the NAIAS show in mid-January.
                          Looking forward to our ME arriving.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well here is my $.03 which is probably all that its worth!

                            Most on this forum and others are thinking that the ME might start in the $65K range. *IF* this is the case, and I realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, WHO would purchase a late model FE C7 for the SAME PRICE??! For a bigger trunk? Just using pure logic here... Since we have heard that GM will continue the FE for a couple more years or at least in parallel.. then WHY? WHO is going to buy a C7? Everyone is waiting even now! Using this logic, it seems that it would make sense that the ME will be north of $65K.. how much who knows.. but it has to be enough to split the model lines. IF the C8=ME as some think, then why produce them in parallel? As cool as the ME is, aren't there major space issues inherent to ME models? Which then would make it more of a weekend exotic. We often boast of the pure usability of the C7. Go from the track to the grocery store to the box store, to the golf course, on a weekend for two. Not sure the ME will be that car. Will it be wildly popular? Absolutely! Will it be the working mans American sports car? My guess is no... Which is why my guess is TWO MODELS. A Continued FE (C8) and a new variant ME model line.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Good analysis. Even though I am super enamoured by switching to a ME (we still have a crush on our 2015 Z06), there are real disadvantages to the ME for some, including those who love manuals (but will be shut out in the ME), those who take two golf bags to the course, those who are now getting massive C7 discounts but know that they will not be getting them for at least a while, and those who like an easily accessible, large rear trunk.

                              I truly get it that some are not going to be happy campers if (rumored but we yet do not know) if the C7 ends production this model year.

                              Additionally, for some every $1,000 dollar extra in initial purchase cost is a “go or no go” financial situation, and even if the ME starts just $10,000 more than the FE’s starting $55,670 entry price, that will mean that they can not ever get a new Corvette again. A sad conclusion for some.
                              Looking forward to our ME arriving.

                              Comment

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