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tramlining

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  • tramlining

    Is tramlining to be expected with the stock all seasons tires on 19-20 aerolarri wheels with extra 1/2" width. Maybe Chet knows?

  • #2
    Here is good info, though I have never read on post from anyone saying that as result of their having greater tire width from their new tires that they started to experience more of it. Of course when one spends thousands for new wheels is it not our human nature to overlook something that we wish were different while focusing on how beautiful our new Aerolarri wheel are??? But if it were a problem, would we not have seen a single post during both the C7 and C8 generation forums, of at least a few saying their wider tires caused tramlining to increase.

    I have personally found the two greatest contributors to tramlining are poor quality roads, then compounded by those poor tires have mostly-heavy-truck induced ruts in them.

    Originally posted by TireRack
    A wider treaded tire will encounter more longitudinal ruts and/or grooves in the road than a narrow treaded tire. ... And because tires become more responsive as their tread depth wears away (which is why tires are shaved for competition and track use), a tire will become more likely to tramline as it wears.
    GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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    • #3
      For the uneducated noobs like me: I had to look up "tramlining" and found this (also) from TireRack:

      ​​​​​​The term "tramlining" is being used to describe when directional control is disrupted by the vehicle's tendency to follow the longitudinal ruts and/or grooves in the road. ... And all vehicles tramline to some degree rather than obediently following the driver's steering input.

      My new word for the day. lol

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      • #4
        I’ve been driving about 55 years and didn’t have a clue what that was. 😅. I do now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Another quote from TireRack:

          “If you are running higher tire pressures than necessary, simply dropping the tire pressures to those recommended by the vehicle manufacturer will help reduce tramlining. Alignment settings can be key as well. The "camber" and "toe" settings both play a role in vehicle stability and the propensity for tramlining.”
          GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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          • #6
            Thanks to motoringjunmction for a complete article on it:

            What is Tramlining and how to avoid it? (Dangerous!)

            Siddharth Sharma 18 Comments tramlining
            You must have often experienced that while driving on an old patch of road, your vehicle has a tendency to follow the ruts and grooves in the road surface. It can be quite an effort to maintain the directional control of the vehicle in such cases.

            The car’s tendency to follow ruts and groove on the road is called “Tramlining”. The name of this phenomenon was coined from its similarity with the trolley driver of a tram who does not need to steer because the tram follows the path established by rail.


            All vehicles experience the tramlining effect on certain patches of road and it can be felt through the involuntary movement of the steering.

            There is some resistance change in the steering while crossing an uneven expansion joint on the road. Even after experiencing it, you might have thought that this is not dangerous and one does not need to be bothered about it. However, tramlining effect can be dangerous at high speeds and slippery road conditions.

            Some people don’t know that tramlining could be the result of some modifications they did to the car. Also, it can also be a symptom of some mechanical issue in the car chassis. Let discuss about this in detail:
            Tramlining effect due to uneven road surface
            Contents
            Who is more prone to tramlining? (what causes tramlining?)


            Upsizing and using low-profile tyres: Many people who upsize their tyres and use low-profile tyres on plus size alloys often complain that the tramlining effect is more prominent. This is because high-performance tyres and low profile means that there is reduced tyre flex and the tyre is not able to absorb road shocks like the high-profile tyres can. This improves the steering response also transmits the road undulations to the hands of the driver. If you do plan to upsize, use Upsizing tool to ensure that you remain in the safe range.

            BMW drivers often complain of tramlining because most of them come fitted with run-flat tyres. The run flat tyres have a very stiff sidewall that’s unable to absorb road shocks. This increases the chances of tramlining. Increase tyre life tips

            Bad suspension components: The suspension components also affect how the vehicle manages ruts and grooves on the road. Different components like suspension bushings, ball joints and suspension mounts are all a part of the chain. As the vehicle ages, some of the suspension components deteriorate.

            This change is so slow that it might go unnoticed. There comes a point where due to bad suspension components, there is some play in the suspension. This allows wheels to be affected by the road irregularities. Therefore, replacing the worn-out suspension consumables will take out the play from the suspension and eliminate tramlining due to bad suspension.

            Widening Wheel Track: Wheel Track is the distance between the wheels on the same axle. The tramlining effect increases as the Wheel track is widened. If you install wheel spacers to move out the wheels little for stance or for improving handling, remember that it will increase the chances of tramlining.

            Over-inflated tyres: Running high tyre pressure in the cars tends to stiffen the tyres and reduce their suppleness to absorb the road shocks that, in turn, increases the tramlining effect. Simply adjusting the tyre pressures as per the manufacturer’s recommendation will fix this issue to some extent.

            Wheels out of alignment: The wheel alignment is not just needed to fix the uneven wearing of the tyre but to also alter the car’s handling characteristics. The camber and toe settings both can have their effect on tramlining.

            Extreme positive or negative camber makes the vehicle more sensitive to follow the longitudinal ruts and grooves. With the added camber, the contact patch on the straight line is reduced and the wheels easily follow the road irregularities.

            Also, more toe-out setting, that improves the direction changing capabilities of the vehicle, reduces the straight line stability. The camber and toe setting can be tweaked according to the environment in which a vehicle will be driven. If the vehicle is used for motorsport competition, then the settings can be on the extreme side, but for the streets, it is best to follow the manufacturer’s recommended settings. 3 things to know about alignment and balancing both hands on the steering wheel help to prevent tramliniing.



            Keep both hands on the steering to control Tramlining

            Sometimes, even after having a good chassis setup, the car might tramline. Many drivers have a bad habit of using one hand on the wheel but its always best to hold the steering with two hands in 9 and 3 0′ clock position with a relaxed grip. This allows you to know what the wheels are doing and feed precise steering inputs to correct the directing of the wheels.
            https://motoringjunction.com/tips-tr...-it-dangerous/



            GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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            • #7
              For what it’s worth, my C7 Z06 was a tramlining beast on several local roads, both with and without the OEM tires. My C7 with the narrower (and newer) Z51 tires rides the same roads without a hint of tramlining.
              CaryBob
              Sr. Contributor
              Last edited by CaryBob; 01-02-2022, 05:43 PM.
              Convertible delivered 9/11/20 — Long Beach Red/Natural, 3LT, Z51, FE4 Suspension, E60 Front Lift, FA5 Carbon Fiber Trim, Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents, 5ZZ High Wing, D84 Carbon Flash Top & Nacelles, ZYC Carbon Flash Mirrors, 3N9 Tan Belts, VQK Splash Guards.

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              • #8
                Thanks for sharing John, great information. I love my AEROLARRI and did not believe they were a problem. Nothing to compare it to because I put the AEROLARRI wheels on with less than 50 miles on the car. I experienced this issue on a road trip to Phoenix. My first thought was stiff side wall on run flat tire. I’ll check tire pressure and different roads as soon as the snow and ice go away.

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                • #9
                  I've been accused of tramlining after a few Fireball shots. But there is no video proof of it.

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                  • #10
                    Tramlining is a new term for me, I always just called it "grabbing ruts". Anyways, I had an experience last year I thought I'd share.

                    My wife bought a new RDX Aspec and the first time I drove it I noticed that the steering was "jerky" is how I described it, like it was grabbing ruts, but it did it all the time at highway speed. I mentioned it and she thought I was just being critical of her new car. I figured it might get better as the tires got some wear on them. I have had truck tires do that until they get some miles on them. We went on a road trip with her car and we were between Missoula and Butte Montana and suddenly the car was "tramlining" bad. I thought it was road ruts and immediately moved to the left lane thinking it was truck ruts. I was doing 85mph and we were in a sweeping right curve when we had a catastrophic rear driver side tire failure. It was a handful and I barely kept it off the jersey barrier but I got it slowed and pulled over to the right shoulder. Thankfully there was no other vehicles around so I was able to pull over right away. When I got out to look I couldn't believe what I saw.

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0003.jpg
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ID:	344453

                    Unfortunately Acura doesn't have a single dealer in Montana so we had to have the car towed back to Idaho to the nearest dealer to have the tire replaced and some of the damage fixed. We continued on our trip in a rental. The steering feedback I was feeling since the car was new was due to a faulty tire and when they replaced the tire the car drove nice with no tramlining, the faulty tire was bad since she drove it off the lot.

                    I should have trusted my instincts and took the car in when I first noticed the tramlining, but to be honest, I doubt the dealer would have correctly diagnosed the problem. Be aware that a faulty tire can cause what feels like tramlining, but I'm not sure how they could have narrowed it down to that specific tire?

                    Tires are Goodyear Eagles.
                    Attached Files

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                    • #11
                      Were they run-flats?
                      Save the wave.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by 73shark View Post
                        Were they run-flats?
                        No. And that car does not have a spare. The tire is a 255/45R20. We tried to find a tire to mount in Missoula and there wasn't any available in that area or Butte. So Acura had us have it towed back to Spokane to the dealer. It was a pain but Acura reimbursed us for all cost including towing, rental car, hotels, fuel, and food for a few days.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Happy to read your story in the sense that you’re still around to tell it. Surprised that you were able to safely pull over with that destroyed tire from 85 mph! A nice lesson for all of us if we experience consistent tramlining. Thanks for sharing.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TurtleTim View Post
                            Tramlining is a new term for me, I always just called it "grabbing ruts". Anyways, I had an experience last year I thought I'd share.

                            My wife bought a new RDX Aspec and the first time I drove it I noticed that the steering was "jerky" is how I described it, like it was grabbing ruts, but it did it all the time at highway speed. I mentioned it and she thought I was just being critical of her new car. I figured it might get better as the tires got some wear on them. I have had truck tires do that until they get some miles on them. We went on a road trip with her car and we were between Missoula and Butte Montana and suddenly the car was "tramlining" bad. I thought it was road ruts and immediately moved to the left lane thinking it was truck ruts. I was doing 85mph and we were in a sweeping right curve when we had a catastrophic rear driver side tire failure. It was a handful and I barely kept it off the jersey barrier but I got it slowed and pulled over to the right shoulder. Thankfully there was no other vehicles around so I was able to pull over right away. When I got out to look I couldn't believe what I saw.

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0003.jpg
Views:	212
Size:	4.20 MB
ID:	344453

                            Unfortunately Acura doesn't have a single dealer in Montana so we had to have the car towed back to Idaho to the nearest dealer to have the tire replaced and some of the damage fixed. We continued on our trip in a rental. The steering feedback I was feeling since the car was new was due to a faulty tire and when they replaced the tire the car drove nice with no tramlining, the faulty tire was bad since she drove it off the lot.

                            I should have trusted my instincts and took the car in when I first noticed the tramlining, but to be honest, I doubt the dealer would have correctly diagnosed the problem. Be aware that a faulty tire can cause what feels like tramlining, but I'm not sure how they could have narrowed it down to that specific tire?

                            Tires are Goodyear Eagles.
                            Wow, that could have turned out badly! Too bad it took an incident to figure it out but I wonder if an inspection of the tire when new would have shown any defect that would allow a replacement under warranty? I've had a couple of bad tires that blew. One radial split from one bead to the other side, but I could not convince Goodyear that they should replace it. I have the opinion that the so-called warranty/inspection facilities are just staffed with people who automatically reject your claim so the manufacturer won't have to bear the cost of replacement. The guy I talked too claimed I had run over something and the tire was not defective. Utter nonsense.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by TurtleTim View Post

                              No. And that car does not have a spare. The tire is a 255/45R20. We tried to find a tire to mount in Missoula and there wasn't any available in that area or Butte. So Acura had us have it towed back to Spokane to the dealer. It was a pain but Acura reimbursed us for all cost including towing, rental car, hotels, fuel, and food for a few days.
                              Glad you guys weren't hurt going at those speeds and it's good to see that Acura took the high road and paid for your trip in addition to the tire and damage.

                              Comment

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