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C8 Corvette ZORA Analysis

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  • C8 Corvette ZORA Analysis

    Your Thoughts??



    C8 CORVETTE ZORA ANALYSIS


    1. Reveal Logic

    2. Nomenclature Logic

    3. Pricing Logic

    4. Bowling Green Plant size and space utilization Logic

    5. Ownership Preference Logic

    6. FE vs ME Model configuration Logic



    1. Reveal Logic
    • When the ME price is finally revealed, it will be the indication of where GM has positioned the car relative to the current and future FE Corvette.
    • They will reveal the ZORA first and gauge the buy in and interest on the ME platform.
    • After the delayed time frame, they will reveal the C8 FE with new body work, interior, DCT/Auto/Manual transmissions, new front fascia with enhanced cooling.
    • This delay time frame could be as short as 6 months or as long as 2 years depending upon the initial interest of the ME.

    2. Nomenclature Logic
    • The Corvette nomenclature (science of naming) will be a big determining indicator of whether they build both C8 FE and ME.
    • GM should never use the Stingray, Grand Sport, Z06, and ZR1 model names on the ME as those were developed during FE seven generation time span.
    • GM should develop an entirely new nomenclature for this entirely new ME configuration.
    • The C8 generation is based on an entirely new shared design of car that is upgraded with the latest tech for both FE and ME configurations.
    • The C8 generation is also a time based change.

    3. Pricing Logic
    • There should be a hierarchy in the C8 generation FE and ME price bandwidth.
    • FE price bandwidth 62k - 160k with a lower starting base price to pacify the existing market
    • ME price bandwidth 85k - 200k with a higher starting price to allow a up market higher end model
    • ME Cadillac GT price bandwidth 95k - 170k

    4. Bowling Green Plant size and space utilization Logic
    • They have tripled the Bowling Green plant sq. footage.
    • The new paint system is on the #1 basement level of the four level 460’ x 1,000’ new main building.
    • There is the additional new 369,000 sq. ft. manifold building which connects the old plant to the new main building.
    • There is now approximately 3,132,000 square feet of Bowling Green plant vs 950,000 SF of the old plant.
    • Logic indicates that more than 1 configuration will be built at the expanded plant.

    5. Ownership Preference Logic
    • Some of us are very interested in a ME and have no intensions of getting a FE going forward.
    • Some of us have owned Corvettes and other exotic mid engined cars and can give a different ownership perspective.
    • Those of us that have owned both configurations understand the positive and negative aspects of both.
    • Most on this forum have an allegiance to the Corvette.
    • The ME should be upscale over the FE to expand the Corvette buyer demographic.

    6. FE vs ME Model configuration Logic
    • Some of the reasons both FE and ME configurations will continue are below.
    • Having both configurations to satisfy a broader buyer clientele.
    • Most traditional Corvette owners still want a FE as it is still perceived as a more practical car.
    • Transitioning the C7 FE to a C8 FE is far easier to achieve than creating the entirely new C8 ME.
    • The ability to modify a FE is easier to accomplish than a ME.
    • Though the ability to modify Corvettes are increasingly becoming more difficult because of tech advancements.
    • The new ME ZORA is not conducive to modifying as it is far more advanced technically than the FE.
    • The ability to work on and service the car is much easier on a FE because of engine accessibility.
    • A potential ME Cadillac GT version of the ZORA will be upscale with a higher level interior.
    • Both C8 FE and ME configurations will be both left hand or right hand drive to expand into the British Commonwealth countries worldwide.
    • C8 FE Stingray —— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT//Manual Transmissions
    • C8 FE Grand Sport- Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
    • C8 FE Z06 ———— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
    • C8 FE ZR1 ———— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
    • C8 ME ZORA ———- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
    • C8 ME ZORA R —- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
    • C8 ME ZORA RX —- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
    • C8 ME ZORA E Ray - Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
    Last edited by Skank; 07-03-2019, 09:01 AM.

  • #2
    That is quite a post! Lots of interesting conjecture.
    While I believe a front engine Corvette variant could coexist with a mid engine if packaged properly, I’m not so sure the brand or GM is ready to attempt it.

    it is likely, although not certain, that GM would prefer to steer people to a high-end Camaro for front engine fan, rather than hey front engine Corvette.

    Chevrolet must support all of their brands and they may see an FE Corvette as cannibalizing Camaro which can be redesigned to be a slicker Front engine car now that there is a mid engine Corvette.

    Since Tadge has stated that a front engine Corvette has reached its zenith in terms of performance, the best try could do is offer a GT version like the Grand Sport.

    The question remains. Can both survive in the same market at the same price points essentially.


    Comment


    • #3
      I don’t think there is gonna be a FE anymore. That segment will go to a new Camaro. I agree on new names for the different levels of the Zora.

      Comment


      • #4
        I was going to wait until after the Bash this weekend and I thought "What the Hell" I might as well hang this out their. Mary Barra only indicated that the C7 generation was going to end in July. That does not preclude GM from having a C8 FE ready to go after the reveal of the C8 ME in a determined time frame. Remember, the C8 term means it is only a time based generational change. The C8 is not a model.

        Comment


        • #5
          Skank your theory of a FE and ME C8 could be asked in a question this week to the person who has to build them plant manager Kai Spande. If he is allowed to answer the question and says he can build both at the same then your theory is golden. But my guess he cannot answer that question yet. 7-18-19 can't get here soon enough for alot of reasons.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by 455SDguy View Post
            Skank your theory of a FE and ME C8 could be asked in a question this week to the person who has to build them plant manager Kai Spande. If he is allowed to answer the question and says he can build both at the same then your theory is golden. But my guess he cannot answer that question yet. 7-18-19 can't get here soon enough for alot of reasons.
            If you are there maybe you could ask him why the C7 FE and the new C8 ME have the same exact wheelbase lengths as purported.

            Comment


            • #7
              Interesting proposals and fully possible in many scenerios.

              my only concern as the two seat sports car market continues to shrink would chevrolet and gm not be better served by having tje corvette go rear mid engine and then have the camaro go full on leaving retro behind and utilizing the amazing alpha platform reconfigured to more a more ferrari portofino type body style...

              the camaro sales are tanking. The excellence of the platform certainly not the issue. I believe the conservative yet handsome restyle into the sixth generation camaro failed to stretch styling far enough.

              i personally believe as the corvette goes rear mid engine as the corvette two seat vehicle.....the camaro will reach to become the front engine 2 plus small 2 corvette like product.

              the camaros alpha platform already performs so well it literally can meet and potientially exceed the performance of ferraris front engine 2 plus 2 ...

              why not create a wow factor for the camaro that transcends its retro heritage and that of its two closest competitors.....the mustang and the challenger...

              sometimes i think its the give away procing on the challengers.....and other times I cant help but wonder ....was GM “safe” play in the very attractive 6 th gen camaro at fault..

              was their enough fresh new design to stir the passion of consumers to pay msrp ...

              the procing was fine, the performance excellent...it wasnt the visability out the side or rear windows...it was the wow factor in styling that was missing. The 6 th gen camaro as handsome as it was.....was just too closely styled like the extremely successful 5 th gen camaro.

              to break that mold.....the corvette needed to move rear mid engine so the camaro could effectively shatter old styling cues of the camaro brand..

              could I be full of ****? Absolutely...could I be dead wrong? Sure but half the fun skank is in examining the logic that we as enthusiasts often come up with.

              i believe as you say there is a market , a segment of the corvette community that prefers front engine rwd sports cars with powerful v8 s amd plenty of storage space....

              im just not convinced that gm isnt planning for a sleek and sexy 2 plus 2 front engine rear wheel drive model for that role instead of a two seater as you propose.

              we will see soon enough as you suggest...

              thank you for your excellence in describing your insights

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Skank View Post
                Your Thoughts??



                C8 CORVETTE ZORA ANALYSIS


                1. Reveal Logic

                2. Nomenclature Logic

                3. Pricing Logic

                4. Bowling Green Plant size and space utilization Logic

                5. Ownership Preference Logic

                6. FE vs ME Model configuration Logic



                1. Reveal Logic
                • When the ME price is finally revealed, it will be the indication of where GM has positioned the car relative to the current and future FE Corvette.
                • They will reveal the ZORA first and gauge the buy in and interest on the ME platform.
                • After the delayed time frame, they will reveal the C8 FE with new body work, interior, DCT/Auto/Manual transmissions, new front fascia with enhanced cooling.
                • This delay time frame could be as short as 6 months or as long as 2 years depending upon the initial interest of the ME.

                2. Nomenclature Logic
                • The Corvette nomenclature (science of naming) will be a big determining indicator of whether they build both C8 FE and ME.
                • GM should never use the Stingray, Grand Sport, Z06, and ZR1 model names on the ME as those were developed during FE seven generation time span.
                • GM should develop an entirely new nomenclature for this entirely new ME configuration.
                • The C8 generation is based on an entirely new shared design of car that is upgraded with the latest tech for both FE and ME configurations.
                • The C8 generation is also a time based change.

                3. Pricing Logic
                • There should be a hierarchy in the C8 generation FE and ME price bandwidth.
                • FE price bandwidth 62k - 160k
                • ME price bandwidth 85k - 200k
                • ME Cadillac GT price bandwidth 95k - 170k

                4. Bowling Green Plant size and space utilization Logic
                • They have tripled the Bowling Green plant sq. footage.
                • The new paint system is on the #1 basement level of the four level 460’ x 1,000’ new main building.
                • There is the additional new 369,000 sq. ft. manifold building which connects the old plant to the new main building.
                • There is now approximately 3,132,000 square feet of Bowling Green plant vs 950,000 SF of the old plant.
                • Logic indicates that more than 1 configuration will be built at the expanded plant.

                5. Ownership Preference Logic
                • Some of us are very interested in a ME and have no intensions of getting a FE going forward.
                • Some of us have owned Corvettes and other exotic mid engined cars and can give a different ownership perspective.
                • Those of us that have owned both configurations understand the positive and negative aspects of both.
                • Most on this forum have an allegiance to the Corvette.
                • The ME should be upscale over the FE to expand the Corvette buyer demographic.

                6. FE vs ME Model configuration Logic
                • Some of the reasons both FE and ME configurations will continue are below.
                • Having both configurations to satisfy a broader buyer clientele.
                • Most traditional Corvette owners still want a FE as it is still perceived as a more practical car.
                • Transitioning the C7 FE to a C8 FE is far easier to achieve than creating the entirely new C8 ME.
                • The ability to modify a FE is easier to accomplish than a ME.
                • Though the ability to modify Corvettes are increasingly becoming more difficult because of tech advancements.
                • The new ME ZORA is not conducive to modifying as it is far more advanced technically than the FE.
                • The ability to work on and service the car is much easier on a FE because of engine accessibility.
                • A potential ME Cadillac GT version of the ZORA will be upscale with a higher level interior.
                • Both C8 FE and ME configurations will be both left hand or right hand drive to expand into the British Commonwealth countries worldwide.
                • C8 FE Stingray —— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT//Manual Transmissions
                • C8 FE Grand Sport- Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
                • C8 FE Z06 ———— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
                • C8 FE ZR1 ———— Soft Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT/Manual Transmissions
                • C8 ME ZORA ———- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
                • C8 ME ZORA RS —- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
                • C8 ME ZORA SS —- Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
                • C8 ME ZORA E Ray - Folding Hard Top Convertible/Coupe - DCT Transmission
                Shank is on the Mark.

                What are the probabilities on the following:
                *Could Ford or Chrysler successfully market and sell a FE sports car that fills the shoes abandoned by a complete withdrawal/abandonment of the FE Vette by GM? YES.or.No?
                If yes, then an FE and ME can co-exist? [assuming that the ME is successful in the first place. Which still has some degree of uncertainty.]
                *Did GM create the New Plant in a manner that allows it to build a FE-C8 at its option? Or did it design a new Plant that eliminates any future FE sports car? Contemporaneous build both, that is? If the answer is yes, then GM is keeping its powder dry.
                * Has GM already made a final decision that a future FE is Dead? Without empirical infro? Why in the world would they?
                *Has GM have a primary plan or contingence plan regarding the future of the FE Vette , the C8 or what ever? Or simply no plan whatsoever in that regard?
                *If a competitor, foreign or domestic, makes and markets a product [performance, price and characteristics] to seize the space vacated by and abandoned by the FE, then what response by GM? Is GM not prepared for that contingency?

                Since the FE platform is exhausted as a performance king. Assumption, Then:
                A C8 Vette as a turing-car option? Would that be considered ?

                It is improbable that GM has abandoned the FE Vette. All options are on the table. Contingence plans are in the drawer. A C8 FE is ready to go into production on reasonable notice. A FE C8 Vette already exist in some form that is not discussed because it is a future product, possible or probable.
                Last edited by SheepDog; 04-23-2019, 09:37 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you so much Skank for laying this all out cogently. Sorry but between driving 2,500 miles the last four days, now at the BASH, going to be a long time until I can get back here and think all that I need to do before responding.

                  Thanks for putting all these major issues into one important thread.
                  GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Camaro is the Camar o? Positioned against Mustang and Challenger. The hazzardous possibility is that Ford will produce a light weight, low slung two-seater FE "Stang" in left and right hand drive. And Ford sell its FE "Stang" at home and successfully abroad. Which GM never in good faith attempted "abroad" .

                    If GM abandons the FE Vette. Then maybe we will get a FE "Stang". A good thing since the Corvette Faithful are so glad to kill the FE Vette.

                    A new FE Stang would be very interesting. Same general everything as the "Old" FE Vette. Except a little pony on it. Would you buy it? Would you look?

                    The Camaro is the Camaro? Do not see GM making a two seat, light weight FE Camaro and trying to market it as a FE Vette replacement. Don't see The Camaro as a consumer replacement for the Vette FE. Then, WHY do such a criminal malfeasance?

                    If the FE Vette traditional crowd looks to Camaro as an alternative, then they will also look at all the pony cars. Not just Camaro. But Mustang, Challenger and ???. It is a segment. The segment has a tradition. If the FE Vette folks makes a switch to pony cars, then there is lots of hot competition.

                    The FE Vette was/is in a class of one, segment of one. No competition. No one dared. Abandon that slot, then some will dare.

                    Anyway, what about a 2 seat Camaro as a substitute for the FE Vette? That would be a step down. They could have named the Vette, Camaro years ago. That stinks. Sorry guys.

                    So many folks have been saying that the Camaro will fill-in for the soon to be deceased FE Vette. Sad speculation. Repeated, repeated, repeated. Remember what Hitler said about that. Repeat it,Over and over. Repeat it. And it will be accepted as true. Is that what is happening here. The "FE Vette is dead" repeated X 1000 = belief.

                    Hay Dudes, Long live the FE Vette. Let no pony car assume the FE 2 seater Vette's throne.
                    Last edited by SheepDog; 04-23-2019, 10:30 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1. The C8 will debut below $65K to maintain a sales volume large enough for economies of scale to apply.
                      2. GM won't produce both a FE and ME Corvette partly because of the same economies of scale. For example, if GM buys 40,000 transaxle DCTs from Tremec then the unit cost is lower than if they buy 10,000 transaxle DCTs and 30,000 inline DCTs.
                      3. The other reason GM won't sell FE and ME Corvettes together? Demand. The market for two seat sports cars isn't large enough to support two different Corvettes at the sales volumes necessary to enable the relatively low prices that have been key to the Corvette's success.

                      I hope GM sees the opportunity they have for the Camaro now that the Corvette is of an entirely different configuration. Without the need to avoid a style too close to the Corvette's, the Camaro can take on a more sleek and sophisticated design, something like a Portofino or F-Type with a large trunk or even a hatch. Fix the visibility problem and make it a true driver's car and it can once again dominate the Mustang both on the track and in the showrooms.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        No way a Camaro, or any Pony car can replace the FE Vette! Trunk space is smaller than the Vette hatch and the kiddie rear seats are useless to a childless couple. Plus you pay a big weight penalty with no benefit.

                        Why would GM trash a successful car to down grade the brand?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There is absolutely no doubt (in my mind, at least) that there will continue to be a FE version of the Corvette. As I've said before, Chevrolet may take a 'time out' and build the new ME exclusively for a period of time, just to keep up with the initial demand, while they evaluate their options for other ME versions, Like the media release has stated, the last C7 will be built this summer. They DID NOT say the last FE was being built this summer!

                          I also agree with the thoughts regarding the price positioning of the various models as they escalate from the current level (FE) up through the $200K mark. There is no way that a decent feature and performance intensive ME can be brought to market with a MSRP of $65K without it being an upgraded Fiero clone. My guess is that with a ME starting price of $85K there will be a 2 year order backlog after introduction, during which time we will see other versions of the ME introduced, as well as the next generation of the FE.

                          While I don't think we will get the whole picture presented to us at the reveal in July, I'm sure that there will be enough talking points to begin piecing together the future product picture. Keep in mind that things are going to continue to be quite 'fluid' for some time yet.....

                          Thanks for the thought provoking post Skank......
                          2020 HTC Torch Red with lots of goodies. Built in September. Museum Delivered in October......

                          Other toys in the garage: Ferrari California, BMW i8 Roadster, Bentley Flying Spur

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by electroVette View Post
                            1. The C8 will debut below $65K to maintain a sales volume large enough for economies of scale to apply.
                            2. The other reason GM won't sell FE and ME Corvettes together? Demand. The market for two seat sports cars isn't large enough to support two different Corvettes at the sales volumes necessary to enable the relatively low prices that have been key to the Corvette's success.

                            "t below $65K". .................. this is an uncertainty.

                            "? Demand." ...................... Availability influences demand, feedback loops. No other affordable quality American 2 seater since 1953 TBird. Segment neglect?

                            "to support two different Corvettes" ..... What about one FE Corvette and a distinct ME Cein, Zora, or GM-GT, or whatever?

                            If the new car is distinguished sufficiently as not a replacement, then what? Assuming GM does left and right side drive and a 2 world cars.


                            It remains open speculation.
                            Last edited by SheepDog; 04-24-2019, 11:15 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If availability influences demand then why is there a glut of C7 Corvettes on dealer lots?

                              Comment

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