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  • C8 EV/Hybrid Thoughts…

    To avoid taking the Mg DCT discussion down a rathole, I am posting this here to open the dialogue on the future of an EV/Hybrid C8 to the community.

    I made a few calculation for Electric Vehicle in the US - comments welcome.

    US gasoline consumption: 145,000,000,000 gallons/year

    Gasoline electric energy equivalency: 33.7 kWh/gallon

    US auto gasoline “electricity” equivalency: 4,886,500,000 MWh/year

    “Average” nuclear plant electric production: ~5,000,000 MWh/year

    Equivalent number of nuclear plants to produce the electricity equivalent of gasoline: 977

    The US Gov. statement that 1/3 of autos will be EVs by 2030 would equate to about 350 new nuclear plants running 98% capacity by 2030.

    Plus the increased distribution network to handle the load on the currently maxed-out grid.

    This doesn't even address the battery material mining, production or end-of-life recycling issues. To make this happen will take a lot of engineering and a lot more UNOBTANIUM to be honest.

  • #2
    Solar , wind, natural gas, will have to share in the equation .. because no way 977 nuclear plants ..not even 97

    Comment


    • #3
      California's grid should be able to handle it.

      I didn't check your numbers, but I didn't see you mention efficiency - gasoline engines are only about 30% efficient when converting gasoline to useable energy.
      My C8:
      '20 Elkhart Lake Blue 2LT Coupe, Natural Interior, GT2 Two-Tone Seats, Performance Exhaust, Front Lift, Carbon Flash Wheels, Engine Appearance Package 2000 Status December 27, 2019; 3000 Status January 2, 2020; 3400 Status March 10, 2020;TPW March 16, 2020; Built June 4th, 2020 (COVID-19); Delivery July 1, 2020

      Current Vettes:
      '68 Lemans Blue 327/350 Convertible
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      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Missileer View Post
        To avoid taking the Mg DCT discussion down a rathole, I am posting this here to open the dialogue on the future of an EV/Hybrid C8 to the community.

        I made a few calculation for Electric Vehicle in the US - comments welcome.

        US gasoline consumption: 145,000,000,000 gallons/year

        Gasoline electric energy equivalency: 33.7 kWh/gallon


        US auto gasoline “electricity” equivalency: 4,886,500,000 MWh/year

        “Average” nuclear plant electric production: ~5,000,000 MWh/year

        Equivalent number of nuclear plants to produce the electricity equivalent of gasoline: 977

        The US Gov. statement that 1/3 of autos will be EVs by 2030 would equate to about 350 new nuclear plants running 98% capacity by 2030.

        Plus the increased distribution network to handle the load on the currently maxed-out grid.

        This doesn't even address the battery material mining, production or end-of-life recycling issues. To make this happen will take a lot of engineering and a lot more UNOBTANIUM to be honest.
        How does average MPG compare? Electrics recapture a portion of the energy expended through regenerative braking. I'm wondering if the estimate should be calculated as total miles driven * kWh per mile used = total MWh required. Then compute how many power plants that is equivalent to.
        2021 Red Mist HTC / Z51 /Mag Ride / Yellow Calipers / C-Flash Mirrors and Wing / Front Lift / Black 3LT / CF Interior Trim / Yellow Belts and Stitching

        Atomic Orange C6. Plenty of engine and suspension mods. Gone, but not forgotten

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks to all who have/will respond. This isn’t meant to be a politically sensitive discussion, but rather to open the floor to thoughts and ideas.

          As to some of the above..

          Solar: we already know based on the last IEEE report that it takes more energy to actually manufacture and distribute a solar cell than the cell will ever produce before it fails so solar is also a losing proposition with today’s technology. For those with solar panels to charge their cars, the solution works (mostly) but at the larger and fleet level it will be unable to support.

          Wind: leaving aside the fact that every wind farm out there has failed to even come close to producing what was projected, one simply needs to look at the number which have been taken down and are now being buried in Casper, WY. 1124 blades were buried there in 2020 alone; god only knows how many more since then.. they get buried in the ground. Each blade is roughly 120ft long and get cut down into these 40ft lengths befofe buried.. 289 motors from these windmills were also buried there at this time!!!

          From 2020 -2040 roughly 8,000 windmills expect to be removed from service and buried like this..In Europe roughly 8,000 windmills are taken down yearly!!!

          Think about the energy consumed just to make these!

          NG: I agree this could be a backfill, but there are more than enough efforts out there to eliminate this as a power source as well. Several cities are already even banning new NG hookups for home stoves/furnaces. Good San Francisco and Natural Gas hookups.

          MPG/Efficiency: fair point, unless you analyze the actual cost of generating said electrical power and modernizing the power grid to come to a true cost of operation.

          In the end, I guess my point is that the current “Catch the Wave” mentality leaves a lot to be desired in the Critical Thinking department

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Missileer View Post
            Thanks to all who have/will respond. This isn’t meant to be a politically sensitive discussion, but rather to open the floor to thoughts and ideas.

            As to some of the above..

            Solar: we already know based on the last IEEE report that it takes more energy to actually manufacture and distribute a solar cell than the cell will ever produce before it fails so solar is also a losing proposition with today’s technology. For those with solar panels to charge their cars, the solution works (mostly) but at the larger and fleet level it will be unable to support.

            Wind: leaving aside the fact that every wind farm out there has failed to even come close to producing what was projected, one simply needs to look at the number which have been taken down and are now being buried in Casper, WY. 1124 blades were buried there in 2020 alone; god only knows how many more since then.. they get buried in the ground. Each blade is roughly 120ft long and get cut down into these 40ft lengths befofe buried.. 289 motors from these windmills were also buried there at this time!!!

            From 2020 -2040 roughly 8,000 windmills expect to be removed from service and buried like this..In Europe roughly 8,000 windmills are taken down yearly!!!

            Think about the energy consumed just to make these!

            NG: I agree this could be a backfill, but there are more than enough efforts out there to eliminate this as a power source as well. Several cities are already even banning new NG hookups for home stoves/furnaces. Good San Francisco and Natural Gas hookups.

            MPG/Efficiency: fair point, unless you analyze the actual cost of generating said electrical power and modernizing the power grid to come to a true cost of operation.

            In the end, I guess my point is that the current “Catch the Wave” mentality leaves a lot to be desired in the Critical Thinking department
            Lot of claims here; would really like to see some citations from reputable sources. Interesting discussion!
            2021 HTC (Silver Flare, 2LT, 2-tone GT2 seats)

            Gone, but not forgotten. . .
            2019 Z06 Convertible (Ceramic Matrix Gray, 2LZ, 7M, R8C)
            2017 Grand Sport Coupe (Admiral Blue, 2LT, 7M)
            2006 Convertible (Lemans Blue, 2LZ, MN6, R8C)
            2003 Coupe (Medium Spiral Gray, 1SB, MN6)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by g8r-vette View Post

              Lot of claims here; would really like to see some citations from reputable sources. Interesting discussion!
              Solar: https://spectrum.ieee.org/green-tech...n-as-you-think

              Wind: photos from Wyoming attached. For wind turbine blades, here is one example: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51325101

              NG: https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-in-new-homes/

              There are plenty of other examples/sources out there if one looks

              Comment


              • #8
                Click image for larger version

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                • #9
                  One paper on EU wind farms.. https://link.springer.com/article/10...67-020-01793-x

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    and another.. https://principia-scientific.com/500...-the-landfill/

                    I’m not saying all of these are necessarily accurate, but there is a common theme and where there’s smoke, there is usually fire

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Missileer What a great topic and a great exercise for the Critical Thinkers in us. Thanks for broaching it.

                      Your examples of Derivative energy sources (no, I’m not talking the stock market either, those are Energy Derivatives) such as Gasoline, Electric & Nuclear were well thought out, concise, coherent, cogent and very lucid in your question/statement. Is there any reason why a nuclear battery source or a Hydrogen Energy source was not provided as part of your contrast/compare discussion? With all the innovation we’ve historically had as an American society, when things seemed to be at their worst, was when some of the greatest inventions were created, for example the automobile, the airplane, better steel products, etc.

                      Your reference to the burying of wind turbines, turbine blades etc. is an environmental faux pas, but no more so than finding the location for where our landfills will be located, once our dead lithium batteries have reached 20% or less efficiency.

                      Gasoline, regardless of efficiency in energy conversion, in my honest opinion, will stay with us for the next 2 or 3 decades, electric autos will be a nice side show for the elite class, as well as for that segment of the population who enjoys the latest & the greatest (myself including) but large scale, mass consumption, electric propulsion is not ready for the 21st Century YET!…and I’m not sure it ever will be (leaving the infrastructure question aside) that said, I can foresee a future where we may not have to be concerned about what source of energy will propel us forward as the “fuel” may be based on a Nuclear or Hydrogen fuel and thus be “free”, and cleaner than anything used today and just like during the mid 20th Century, when car designers started incorporating higher seat backs and seat belts for driver/passenger safety, and crunch zones in designs of vehicles absorbing the energy of car accidents, in the mid 21st Century, I predict there will be Cars whose main fuel source will be based on a small Nuclear Battery or a Hydrogen energy system, which will also possess built in safety systems thereby protecting us from Nuclear Fallout, mini nuclear bombs or Hydrogen explosions.

                      For a deeper dive: a one inch pellet of Uranium, is the equivalent of 17,000 cubic feet of Natural Gas, 120 Gals of Oil and 1 ton of coal, that’s only 1 pellet, that’s one inch tall. Think about it, the person who Engineers & designs the “engine” that could run on less than a one inch pellet of uranium, would surely become the next “Henry Ford” of the 21st Century or be labeled a “terrorist” for attempting to do so.
                      Last edited by hogyld; 07-26-2021, 10:07 PM.
                      07/01/20 Deposit @ VanBortels on 2021 C8 Coupe; 08/01/20 Prelim Order Status 1100; 01/21/21 Final Order Status 2000; 01/27/21 Status 3000; 03/06/21 Status 3300 (TPW 03/22/21); 03/16/21 Status 3400; 03/22/21 Status 3800; 03/23/21 Status 4B00; 03/26/21 Status 4D00: Status 4200; 04/02/21; 04/06/21 Status 5000; 2LT Coupe; GMO; DSZ; Q8Q; HTA; AQ9; E60; FE2; NPP; ERI

                      ”I’m not the best in town, but I’m the best, until the best comes around“

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hogyld View Post
                        Missileer What a great topic and a great exercise for the Critical Thinkers in us. Thanks for broaching it.

                        Your examples of Derivative energy sources (no, I’m not talking the stock market either, those are Energy Derivatives) such as Gasoline, Electric & Nuclear were well thought out, concise, coherent, cogent and very lucid in your question/statement. Is there any reason why a nuclear battery source or a Hydrogen Energy source was not provided as part of your contrast/compare discussion? With all the innovation we’ve historically had as an American society, when things seemed to be at their worst, was when some of the greatest inventions were created, for example the automobile, the airplane, better steel products, etc.

                        Your reference to the burying of wind turbines, turbine blades etc. is an environmental faux pas, but no more so than finding the location for where our landfills will be located, once our dead lithium batteries have reached 20% or less efficiency.

                        Gasoline, regardless of efficiency in energy conversion, in my honest opinion, will stay with us for the next 2 or 3 decades, electric autos will be a nice side show for the elite class, as well as for that segment of the population who enjoys the latest & the greatest (myself including) but large scale, mass consumption, electric propulsion is not ready for the 21st Century YET!…and I’m not sure it ever will be (leaving the infrastructure question aside) that said, I can foresee a future where we may not have to be concerned about what source of energy will propel us forward as the “fuel” may be based on a Nuclear or Hydrogen fuel and thus be “free”, and cleaner than anything used today and just like during the mid 20th Century, when car designers started incorporating higher seat backs and seat belts for driver/passenger safety, and crunch zones in designs of vehicles absorbing the energy of car accidents, in the mid 21st Century, I predict there will be Cars whose main fuel source will be based on a small Nuclear Battery or a Hydrogen energy system, which will also possess built in safety systems thereby protecting us from Nuclear Fallout, mini nuclear bombs or Hydrogen explosions.

                        For a deeper dive: a one inch pellet of Uranium, is the equivalent of 17,000 cubic feet of Natural Gas, 120 Gals of Oil and 1 ton of coal, that’s only 1 pellet, that’s one inch tall. Think about it, the person who Engineers & designs the “engine” that could run on less than a one inch pellet of uranium, would surely become the next “Henry Ford” of the 21st Century or be labeled a “terrorist” for attempting to do so.
                        Thanks for the comments and thoughts. I should say, none of this is purely off the cuff. I’m actually part of a team that is looking at risks and options for all future energy solutions and have a lot of other data that I wish I could share.

                        This was more to generate discussion to see what others thought outside of that exercise.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          hogyld regarding Reactor waste… take a look at this article and others related. Progress is being made on how to reuse spent cores, but of course with the current stockpile we’ve already got a lot to work wiht

                          https://www.cnbctv18.com/views/repro...rd-8387681.htm

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Wow. And many parts of the world do not "yet" consume their fair share of energy and make their pro rata portion of mess.

                            20/80 again keeps popping up.
                            Last edited by SheepDog; 07-26-2021, 10:52 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pipe Dream?


                              Energy Supply: The #1 Challenge of the 21st Century


                              The International Energy Agency forecasts that government policies, market conditions and innovation will help to increase the share of low-carbon supplies for electricity. The shares of electricity generated from technologies such as wind, solar and geothermal will rise from 36% today to 52% in 2040. However, fossil fuels will make up the difference and continue to dominate the global energy mix.

                              Fusion has the unique capability to provide utility-scale energy on-demand wherever it is needed, making it an excellent complement for intermittent renewables and battery storage. Combined, these technologies make for a practical energy portfolio that mitigates climate change while driving economic prosperity.Advantages of Fusion

                              Reliability


                              Fusion energy is on-demand and independent from the weather, making it an excellent complement to renewables.
                              Land use​


                              Our fusion energy power plants reduce the need for long transmission lines because they can be built near the sources of energy demand, making better use of land.
                              Environment


                              Fusion produces zero greenhouse gas emissions, emitting only helium as exhaust. It also requires less land than other renewable technologies.
                              Timeline


                              With the urgency of climate change in mind, we are on course to power homes, businesses, and industry with fusion energy by the 2030s.
                              Energy autonomy​


                              Fusion energy can be placed anywhere in the world, and its fuel (derived from seawater) is readily available. It will offer energy independence to all countries, regardless of geography.
                              Green​


                              Fusion energy produces zero carbon emissions. Just 1 kg of fusion fuel can power 10,000 homes for one year and replace 55,000 barrels of oil, 6 million kgs of natural gas, or 10 million kgs of coal.
                              Last edited by SheepDog; 07-26-2021, 10:48 PM.

                              Comment

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