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  • #31
    Originally posted by meyerweb View Post

    While I agree with you, the C8.R engine produced significantly less power than the Z06 will. The engines also probably get torn down and checked after every race.

    The only engine related problem I've heard of with the C8.R is that in some of the early testing it vibrated so much it was literally shaking parts of the car loose.
    Right, and I'm glad they had that problem because they clearly have solved it since.

    I'm confident that GM wouldn't put this out if they anticipated issues with it and that they've done ridiculous amounts of testing and their due diligence on everything. I wouldn't be surprised if the 5.5 is a larger bore with shorter stroke than we expect as the shorter stroke mitigates the secondary balance effects.

    Like TAdams65 posted above with that engine, I had the luxury of being able to work on the planes at the Palm Springs WWII Air Museum for about 4 years and saw MASSIVE radial engines with turbo chargers AND superchargers, etc. that we still fired up and flew to this day! If they can figure out how to make an 18 cyl, 55 liter, 3,000 HP plus radial behemoth in the 1930s I'm certain GM can figure out some way to mitigate the vibration issues inherent in a flat plane crank.

    I would take the first Z06 off the line and be 100% confident in the reliability of the vehicle.
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    • #32
      Originally posted by TAdams65 View Post
      I sent this to John in a PM, but if Pratt and Whitney could build a 28 cylinder, 4360 cubic inch radial with slide rules and make it work, I'm pretty sure that GM can make what it is really a pretty simple 8 cylinder reliable.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr0AxAPeGiI
      and do it with material and personnel shortages and a very short timeline to get it done.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by NaturallyAspirated View Post


        But why though?

        There are tons of DOHC performance engines out there that have worked both the street and track.

        I think people are a bit concerned is because we're all used to the pushrod engines GM gave us all these decades.

        The car will be fine. Us owners will be fine. Keep the car stock and enjoy the car with all it's warranty.
        DOHC, FPCs, turbos , super chargers, roller cams, etc. have been around for 100 years or more. I'm sure GM can build a solid high winding DOHC, FPC engine. It'll be fun having one of them scream by me in my pushrod C8 Stingray
        Waiting @1375 with Kerbeck: 2021 Corvette Stingray -2LT coupe -Ceramic Matrix Gray Metallic, Natural interior FE2 - NPP - E60 - EYK
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        • #34
          I've had several cars and motorcycles with DOHC engines, as have friends and relatives. Not one problem related to that engine design. As Chev said, above, there's nothing new about that tech. It's proven and reliable. If a particular engine has issues with, as someone mentioned, the cam chains, it's a design flaw with the chain, not a problem endemic to DOHC engines. Someone spec'd the wrong part, possible to save money, or to make a slightly shorter engine, or whatever.
          Delivered 5/29!: Scarlet Fever 2021 2LT HTC, Red Mist Metallic Tintcoat, two-tone Natural w/ suede inserts, Mag Ride, Performance Exhaust

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          • #35
            Originally posted by TAdams65 View Post
            I sent this to John in a PM, but if Pratt and Whitney could build a 28 cylinder, 4360 cubic inch radial with slide rules and make it work, I'm pretty sure that GM can make what it is really a pretty simple 8 cylinder reliable.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr0AxAPeGiI
            I'm not sure how a radial engine that probably operated at one-third of the rpm that the Z06 FPC 5.5L V8 will spin is comparable. The harmonics issue with FPC's is well known and the problems get worse at higher rpms. If a RR Merlin engine is a FPC (I don't know), then maybe that would have been a better analogy.

            We know a 7.0l LS7 block can be fitted with DOHC and make all the power that is needed for the Z06 faithful to be giddy about. GM invited the FPC challenge when it decided that option was off the table.
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            • #36
              The 28 cylinder P&W R-4360 is a poor example of a reliable complex engine. From the Wikipedia article on it,

              The engine was a technological challenge and the first product from Pratt and Whitney's new plant near Kansas City, Missouri.[2] The four-row configuration had severe thermal problems that decreased reliability, with an intensive maintenance regime involving frequent replacement of cylinders required.[citation needed] Large cooling flaps were required, which decreased aerodynamic efficiency, putting extra demands on engine power when cooling needs were greatest. Owing in large part to the maintenance requirements of the R-4360, all airplanes equipped with it were costly to operate and suffered decreased availability. Its commercial application in the Boeing Stratocruiser was unprofitable without government subsidy.[3] Abandonment of the Stratocruiser was almost immediate when jet aircraft became available, while aircraft with smaller powerplants such as the Lockheed Constellation and Douglas DC-6 remained in service well into the jet era.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Milliwatt Rob View Post
                The 28 cylinder P&W R-4360 is a poor example of a reliable complex engine. From the Wikipedia article on it,

                The engine was a technological challenge and the first product from Pratt and Whitney's new plant near Kansas City, Missouri.[2] The four-row configuration had severe thermal problems that decreased reliability, with an intensive maintenance regime involving frequent replacement of cylinders required.[citation needed] Large cooling flaps were required, which decreased aerodynamic efficiency, putting extra demands on engine power when cooling needs were greatest. Owing in large part to the maintenance requirements of the R-4360, all airplanes equipped with it were costly to operate and suffered decreased availability. Its commercial application in the Boeing Stratocruiser was unprofitable without government subsidy.[3] Abandonment of the Stratocruiser was almost immediate when jet aircraft became available, while aircraft with smaller powerplants such as the Lockheed Constellation and Douglas DC-6 remained in service well into the jet era.
                It's been in the air racer Dreadnought since the mid 1980's, it has proven pretty reliable. The point is, a flat plane crank V8 is not that complicated, especially with all the modern tools we have available now. I'm not in the market for the Z06, but I would buy VIN #1 without hesitation if I was.
                The greatest sound in the world is a Rolls Royce Merlin over 100 inches.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Chev View Post

                  DOHC, FPCs, turbos , super chargers, roller cams, etc. have been around for 100 years or more. I'm sure GM can build a solid high winding DOHC, FPC engine. It'll be fun having one of them scream by me in my pushrod C8 Stingray

                  I know. I have faith in GM. I know people are concerned but the reason that is, is because people aren't used to seeing this from GM. So they're questioning their capabilities.

                  Since i'm in line for a 3rd MY z06 anyway, if i see issues in the 1st year with no sign of improvement, i'll most likely change my order to the ERAY. Which i still believe will be the more potent C8 variant for the street. Electric is the future but at the same time it's already here. It just saddens me how GM created this masterpiece in the C8, only for it to have a short run.

                  It's almost like getting an IPHONE 12, and trying to be all happy about it, only for the IPHONE 13 to come out days later.

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                  • #39

                    Apples and oranges?

                    The Koenigsegg Jeskos is powered by a 5.0-liter twin-turbocharged V8 engine flat-plane 180-degree crankshaft rev through to 8,500 rpm , 1,578 hp and 1,106 lb-ft (1,500 Nm) of torque.

                    Or Koenigsegg and GM : Engineers and engineers?



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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by meyerweb View Post
                      I've had several cars and motorcycles with DOHC engines, as have friends and relatives. Not one problem related to that engine design. As Chev said, above, there's nothing new about that tech. It's proven and reliable. If a particular engine has issues with, as someone mentioned, the cam chains, it's a design flaw with the chain, not a problem endemic to DOHC engines. Someone spec'd the wrong part, possible to save money, or to make a slightly shorter engine, or whatever.
                      I am not sure a flat-plane crank engine (DOHC) of this size has been proven in terms of mass production, yet?
                      Vibrations and max rpm is a factor in these and then size matters. Only time will tell.
                      In terms of risk management principles, unknown unknowns are high risk per default.
                      But again, the more “compromised” a car is, the more maintainance and parts failure is expected, so as long as owners-to-be have a higher tolerance to these expected things and probable more frequent maintainance, it is a non-issue.

                      Just don’t expect relatively “low” maintainance costs. Expect relatively “high” costs. That’s the name of the game with everything high performance.
                      The more you push any structure, the more up-keep you need to do.
                      Performance wise, this will be awesome for people wanting more hp and stiffer set-up. But don’t expect wizardry/magic on the cost/maintainance/parts failure front.

                      That said, to all who are future Z06 owners: I hope all the best for the 5.5L machine and that it will prove itself. That will be awesome.
                      It does not work for my daily driving and Route 66 adventures + other cross country adventures, but you’ll never see me trying to find “flaws” with a version I don’t choose to convince myself/others that I chose right. That is something we can avoid, also when talking coupe vs. HTC… and in other parts of life✌️
                      Last edited by Top Off Action; 07-23-2021, 09:56 AM.
                      Coupe, 1LT, Rapid Blue, orange seat belts and black interior. ETA Late 2021.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by JB View Post

                        I was good for about a year and then i got annoyed. I learned something about myself and happy with my current corvette. Too late now to get on the Z06 list. When the Zr1 becomes a rumor maybe Ill get on that list ? Hopefully there will come a time after these part shortages pass that Ill be able just order a z06 and have a seven or 8 week wait like many of us have had for decades when ordering a new car.


                        A mans got to know his limitations.
                        So all this talk about GM going total EV seems to be in short retention by you’s guys. I holding on for dear life 20 months into this process because I have no interest in EV’s…. I’m driving ICE until they take my keys or shut off the pumps.… and yes I’ve had my VAX… 😂
                        202(1 or 2) Arctic White HTC Z51 with all the Goodies 😎

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Top Off Action View Post

                          I am not sure a flat-plane crank engine of this size has been proven in terms of mass production, yet?
                          I said DOHC, not FPC, now didn't I? I was responding to the comments previously that DOHC engines were historically unreliable, which is simply false.
                          Delivered 5/29!: Scarlet Fever 2021 2LT HTC, Red Mist Metallic Tintcoat, two-tone Natural w/ suede inserts, Mag Ride, Performance Exhaust

                          Gone but not forgotten: SunKissed, 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible

                          Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club: https://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org/

                          Never grow up - It's a trap.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Milliwatt Rob View Post
                            The 28 cylinder P&W R-4360 is a poor example of a reliable complex engine. From the Wikipedia article on it,

                            The engine was a technological challenge and the first product from Pratt and Whitney's new plant near Kansas City, Missouri.[2] The four-row configuration had severe thermal problems that decreased reliability, with an intensive maintenance regime involving frequent replacement of cylinders required.[citation needed] Large cooling flaps were required, which decreased aerodynamic efficiency, putting extra demands on engine power when cooling needs were greatest. Owing in large part to the maintenance requirements of the R-4360, all airplanes equipped with it were costly to operate and suffered decreased availability. Its commercial application in the Boeing Stratocruiser was unprofitable without government subsidy.[3] Abandonment of the Stratocruiser was almost immediate when jet aircraft became available, while aircraft with smaller powerplants such as the Lockheed Constellation and Douglas DC-6 remained in service well into the jet era.
                            Ummm…maybe come visit TADAMS and I at NCAR in Reno and get to know just how reliable that engine is.

                            BTW… WikiPedia is far from a worthy source for factual data

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JB View Post
                              GM has a 300k mile validation process, probably the best validation process in the industry. I have confidence in the dohc engine going in the c8 z06.

                              wouldnt be the worst thing to get a second year production engine yet Id have enough confidence in GM warranty to purchase a c8 z06 first year.


                              the reservation list is soooooo long Im not even bothering. After waiting 16 months for current corvette I foolishly walked away from joining a new reservation list for the c8 z06. Now its just ridiculous.


                              I want to buy my next corvette with a seven week deliveryprocess like the old days. Otherwise Ill break down a year or two into z06 production and unhappily get on another list ...
                              The very nature of the Z06 should weed out many buyers. The performance will be more than many want and the price point should further filter out many buyers. I would not expect a wait list to anywhere near as bad as the current Stingray lists. Though I also expect less Z06's to be produced, so maybe the wait list stays in relative ratio to the number produced.
                              (Kicked 2020 Longbeach Red Order)
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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Missileer View Post

                                Ummm…maybe come visit TADAMS and I at NCAR in Reno and get to know just how reliable that engine is.

                                BTW… WikiPedia is far from a worthy source for factual data
                                Find me a "worthy" source that finds this engine to be reliable, economical and trouble free in its intended commercial and military application.

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