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Z06 With Z07’s Ride Quality Concerns

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  • Z06 With Z07’s Ride Quality Concerns

    I have friends who regularly track their C7 Z06 with its Z07 package. That is a smart choice of theirs to have checked off the “Z07 Performance Package” box, and they will properly check off the Z07 box for their C8 Z06. For the rest?

    But using 2017 as an example, do we really think that over half of that year’s buyers (3,788 chose it out of 7,273 total Z06’s purchased that year), a) really are on the track often, and/or b) that buying the Z07 package was a smart idea for most of the non-track buyers — especially from the advantage of hindsight.

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    We previously had two threads on some cautions for selecting a C8 Z06 in terms of ride quality. Perhaps reading them if you did not see them is a good idea before you read this thread (planned as the last in this series).

    Part I: https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...OLc5UivHXsCK08

    Part II: https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...ration-part-ii

    Background info/examples:

    Most importantly, I appreciate the honesty of the Corvette team members in advising some of us on whether we should get the Z07 package. I had the privilege of a lengthy 1-to-1 conversation with the Lead C7 Z07 Ride Quality Engineer and Test Driver at the Bash in April 2014, my asking him whether we should get the Z07 package. His response was to ask me, “what are your past Corvette and intended C7 Z06 usage patterns?” Even though he clearly had lots of pride in his and his colleagues work in developing the Z07 package, and even though one could also argue that that as a GM employee he would want to sell more Z06 options (especially one that cost $7,995, to assist in GM profit’s picture), once he heard we do lot of road trip miles as our primary use, he said that he would advise us NOT to get the Z07 option. He then went on to share a personal story, that when he and his wife (a GM engineer in non-Corvette operations) a month before went on a 300 mile each way trip (part of the CTF program of GM always putting tens of thousands of real world miles on all upcoming, for customer sale models), just 20 miles from home, and he mentioned the lousy-pavement Michigan interstate they were driving on, his wife said, “ENOUGH, take this car back to the fleet pool for it is hammering us.” And they went back, picked up an entry Z06 and enjoyed the rest of their trip to northern Michigan and back over the next five days.

    To review the pqst two cautionary threads, the C8 Z07 will again have higher rate springs, firmer suspension bushings, Cup 2 tires and more. As we have focused on the more aggressive springs and bushings in the first two threads linked above, let us here discuss the Cup 2 tires.

    Here are some really bad Cup 2 experiences due to the Cup 2 tires (and/or course one could argue the driver being over his head in conjunction with those tires):

    1)Going home from the dealership on “pick up day,” in the state of Washington, a Z06 with Z07 did first one 180 degree spin, then another one, smacking both sides of his less than 30 minutes old C7 Z06/Z07 against opposing guardrails.

    2)In the first two hours of ownership in Miami, a driver lost control on a city street, smacked it into the curb, called a tow truck, went back to the dealership and bought a Z06 WITHOUT the Cup 2 tires (about a $40,000 “tough learning” in those days).

    3)A driver on the fifth day of owning his Z06/Z07 here in Oregon was so frightened by two mini-spins in both of his two days of driving it, he refused to even drive it to the dealership. He traded it in (via a flat toe), and bought a regular Z06 (cost him about $30,000 for that exchange.). If he had only listened to his friends earlier who probably at least ten 10 or maybe even 20 times had tried for months earlier to talk him out of ordering the Z07 package.

    There are many other examples in which owners of Z07’s wish, in hindsight, that they had been smart enough to NOT buy the Z07 package.

    Here is to me the most important example of a person with not only has the super smarts but truly was/is the best racing car driver in history, who when he bought a C7 Z06/Z07 did not drive it literally 1’ without its Cup 2 tires being removed and replaced with the PSS tires that are standard on the regular C7 Z06. Who am I referring to? Yes, Mario Andretti, a man who drove over 200 MPH in Formula One and other races IN THE RAIN, and yes before he left the dealership with his new C7 Z06, had them remove its Cup 2 tires. [BTW, this is no internet tale. I directly and personally verified this as factual info.]

    True there is the option of getting replacement non Cup 2 tires if you choose a C8 Z06/Z07 but is this your plan you will EXECUTE ON, or will you like one more example I did not cite above, a person who before he ordered his C7 Z06/Z07 always publicly said he was NEVER going to drive it with Cup 2s, but did so and one his third outing out, slid on the wet and dearly paid the price.

    And even if you are never going to drive your Z06/Z07 in the wet, are you willing to put up with its tendency to hydroplane (lack of tread) whenever it is really wet outside, and/or it close to dangerous lack of grip on less than 45 degree days? And/or is its very poor UTQG tire wear rating? For those who have never seen a Cup 2 tire up close, yes it truly looks like it came from the factory very unevenly worn out.

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    Lastly, since come of our competitors are already coming with Cup 2 R’s, which have about a 60 UTQG rating, what if the C8 Z06/Z07 comes standard with Cup 2 R tires?

    Again, thanks for considering these three threads, so you make the right purchase for you, one truly consistent not with the “cool factor” but your actual usage for your C8 Z06?


    GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

  • #2
    Thanks for that John, I have seen/driven on Cup 2's before and they are basically what I refer to as street legal slicks. I'll never own a set unless they are on separate wheels and installed for track use only.

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    • #3
      You sir have wisdom. I wish others did, for as you know and practice, they are very dicey on all but warm and dry pavement.
      GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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      • #4
        Just because you can afford one doesn't mean you should buy one!

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        • #5
          Good for people to think about these things John.
          Fortunately I live in Nevada where we seldom have the rain or cold conditions that one needs to be extra careful in using performance tires like Cup2s. I am looking forward to the hardest core version Z06 that Chevy will produce. I love when a manufacturer offers something out of the norm. That being said, there is a responsibility as an owner to understand and learn to use such a focused tool. Many do not respect performance cars capabilities or understand the limitations, especially when they first get and drive. Cup style tires require being up to temperature and proper pressure to perform on dry pavement. Even on track is takes time for the tires to be ready for hard use. Even with all of the nannies on todays cars, the driver needs to understand what their part is in safe enjoyment of such a performance weapon. This is why I applaud Chevy for offering, and encourage anyone getting a Corvette to take advantage of the Ron Fellows school as soon as possible after getting their car.
          I, as MGfoursixeight suggested above, have a second set of rims with tires mounted specific for use... and that brings up a point that many ignore regarding performance tires in general. As a rule, I always get the freshest date code available when I order tires. I will not use a performance tire, (including the 4S) past four years of age max regardless of how good the tread is, (same with trailer tires btw). Performance tire compounds harden substantially and I have seen and heard of countless spins and crashes because of this.
          Last edited by Lacquer; 06-14-2021, 12:59 PM.

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          • #6
            I like everything about the Z07 EXCEPT the Cup 2 tires. They simply wear out too fast. I will probably stick to what I have done in the past and go with a 1LZ. I never missed the options that upgraded packages offer. They come very well equipped in standard form. The motor is the same. I will be happy.

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            • #7
              1LZ is separate from Z07 selection or not, i.e., you can have either or you can have both. You sure are correct that the motor will be identical across the entire Z06 line.
              GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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              • #8
                Well John, you asked if I was a track junkie and my answer is no and also that I would never choose the Z07 option not only because of the tires but I like you want to take the car for road trips and would not be happy with a "track rat". That being said I'm glad they make the Z07 option available for those that do track their cars. Personally, my only reason for the Z06 is for the wonderful sound and performance of that new engine, whatever they eventually call it
                2021 ELB, 2LT, Red Interior, Red Calipers, Standard Wheels, Front Lift, NPP,
                MM Deposit Dec. 15, 2020
                May 15, 21 2000
                May 18, 21 3000

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                • #9
                  With the car different in every other way, they will not preserve it worse feature. Unbearable ride.

                  The leaf springs have been replaced with coil. Seat moved forward, not over the back wheels anymore, and updated magneto-tech. Engineers looking out for aging vertebrae. It's going to be a totally different Z06. 7 whatever.

                  Brand new day. The buckboard Z06 is history. Float and stick Z06.

                  But. Really. What do I know. Nothing. But assume that the engineers will find a fix, for the buckboard Z06. A different car and a different result.
                  Last edited by SheepDog; 06-14-2021, 06:44 PM.

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                  • #10
                    I hope you are right. But the difference between the C8 and the C7 Stingrays is probably no more than 20% in terms of ride quality.

                    Every birdie has repeatedly whispered one message over the past three years, and that is that the Z06 will successfully take on its exotic competition, that that is the basic mission of the car.

                    So until we know for sure, I would hate for somebody to make the assumption that the Z06 ride quality is being anything other than of a very firmly sprung sports car – – and thus be potentially sorry if it is not as smooth as they wish.

                    There could definitely be a positive case where not placing one’s order for a while could well be a good thing, that is being able to read the first auto media reviews and the initial Z06 receiving customer analyses being a positive trade-off to not getting yours in the first four months that initial Z06 customers receive theirs.

                    Getting in early Z06allocation could well have it positive upside.
                    GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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                    • #11
                      I've driven on R compound tires on the street and I agree in cool or significant water events, be patient and calm with throttle and braking inputs. The worst was driving on non-radial tries (ET Streets), even in ok weather with acceptable tire pressure. I remember tire companies advertising their superior radial tires, but was too young to have driving experience in pre-radial days. Definitely a different feel to drive on a non-radial with a lot of sidewall compared to today's cars where even a Honda Accord has what would have been a low profile tire in the 1970s.

                      No Z07 here, even if I could swap the tires for free.

                      2021 Red Mist HTC / Z51 /Mag Ride / Yellow Calipers / C-Flash Mirrors and Wing / Front Lift / Black 3LT / CF Interior Trim / Yellow Belts and Stitching

                      Atomic Orange C6. Plenty of engine and suspension mods. Gone, but not forgotten

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                      • #12
                        I have a 2021 Honda Civic Type R LE that came standard with Cup 2 Michelins on 20" forged BBS wheels. A great tire on a dry track but a handful on the street even in the summer heat when the roads are wet!!! I have a set of Michelin +4 All Season tires mounted on 18" BBS forged wheels for other than "summer duty" driving!
                        GD0 Accelerate Yellow Metallic; 3LT; HUE Natural Napa Leather; AE4 Competition Sport Seats; FA5 CF Interior Trim; Z51; FE4 Mag Ride Suspension; E60 Front Lift; Q8Q CF Open Spoke Wheels; J6F BR Brembo Calipers; RCC ER Intake Cover; DTH CF Racing Stripes; ZZ3 Engine App Package; VQK Splash Guards; ERI Battery Protection; R8C Museum Delivery

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                        • #13
                          Thanks whl3. Great info/analysis for all considering Cup 2’s in every application.
                          GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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                          • #14
                            I guess I’m in the Minority. I want the Z07 Package. To me driving the Z06/Z07 with the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 (R) just comes down to common sense , the tire is almost a Slick so obviously it wouldn’t grip good in the cold or wet. I don’t drive My C8 Stingray in the wet and I store it during our7 month winter ( cold season) I’ll do the same with my C8 Z06 ( If I’m able to afford it )

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