48V Adds $$$’s to the C8. What Might It All Mean?

[John forum co-founder & admin Find all posts View Profile Close John]

We have different technical articles at the link stating that adding a 48V system to the ME would increase its cost roughly between $800-$1,500 — dependent on which system is used.



https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...ical-deep-dive

GM is not immune to financial dynamics. While we do not have 100% knowledge that the ME is going to have a 48V electrical system, GM Authority* has stated there that there is a major change necessary to the C8’s electrical backbone. It is not the only automedia speculating the ME is delayed due to electrical issues, e.g., the reason for the probable non-C8-reveal before this summer. A bigger battery and a bigger alternator have been rumored to be tried, but were deemed insufficient.

How might the electrical system upgrade have anything to do with the GM’s mid December decision to increase C7 prices from a minimal to $405 up to $2,770?

If it were GM’s intent all along to have Tadge say at the ME’s reveal, “If you can afford a Grand Sport, you can afford a mid Engine C8” (as I have personally believed for many months), is it purely coincidence that the ME’s electrical issue was publicly identified by GM Authority a couple of days before GM announced C7 pricing increases?

How many of us in the Corvette community ask at the time of the C7 pricing increases, how come they are raising prices when not only are they now making more Corvettes than they are currently selling, but also GM has 8,000 unsold Corvettes at dealerships — with a consequent 162 day supply?

If there is no reveal comparison tie in, we know purely due to financial factors, that if GM’s cost to manufacture the C8 just went up, say between $800-$1,500, that that incremental cost just increased the entry price of the C8 by a amount close to that (or more).

If all the electrical system postulations are wrong, something else has been adding to the time needed for the C8’s reveal and its consequent, initial customer production schedule. As we know, delays cost money. Lots and lots of money if we are talking about developing a brand new, radically-changed Corvette generation, as the longer the testing and development process is on-going, the greater those tens of millions of dollars of costs need to be somehow compensated for. And if the testing and development were to result in more expensive ME components, electrical and/or otherwise,, as is obvious to all that too must be compensated for in the ME’s starting price.

Whatever we later 100% learn is the cause for the ME’s timing change, we know that it will add to the entry MSRP for the ME.

Your thoughts....?


*http://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/12/...ssue-breaking/

[Fasttoys Forum Founding & Sr. Contributing Member Find all posts View Profile Close Fasttoys]

John pricing matters and GM will need to be very cautious and not over inflate the entry price by adding a 48v system that most people won't even notice or care. I can see it now at Cars and Coffee, Wow nice ME Corvette O thanks and by the way it has a 48v system.?

I am Truly complexed what went wrong during development and why the entire car electrical system has to be completely changed. I said many times GM moving to an ME platform is not going to be an easy task for the team. Which is why many auto manufacturers don't have ME sports cars.

[meyerweb Forum Founder, Sr. Content Contributor & Patron Find all posts View Profile Close meyerweb]

I don't think we can assume that the C8 is going to have a 48 volt system OR that electrical problems delayed the release or even that there is a real delay ,since GM never said when the release would happen.

This is rumor on top of rumor on top of rumor. Even if you accept that GM Authority has good sources and the delay is real and caused by electrical issues, the 48 volt rumor is truly a rumor.

[John forum co-founder & admin Find all posts View Profile Close John]

There are four “ifs” and some other disclaimers in the OP. But even if there were no “ifs” and no disclaimers in the OP, we can look at this another way

If a husband and wife agreed that you were going to have $500,000 in your investments by age 50, but did not meet your goal, and it took you until them until were 55 years old to get to their $500,000 investment goal, but they never told anyone else about their plans, were they delayed in meeting your stated goal/timeline? Yes — even if no one else knew it.

Similarly, if GM’s original goal was to get the ZR1 out at the 65th Anniversary Corvette for the 2018 model year, but never told anyone outside of GM that that was their goal, but it did not come out until the 2019 model year, was it delayed? In the latter case GM never told anyone it was delayed until after its reveal. In fact, it was not until a couple of months after the ZR1’s reveal, that some did learn that the ZR1 was delayed — that it was originally supposed to be the 65th Anniversary model, but because it was not ready by then, they quickly (and we know very successfully) came up with a last minute substitution of the 65th Annviersary Ceramic Matrix Gray Metallic Special Edition.

So if the mid engine Corvette, by GM’s internally stated goal, as approved by GM’s top corporate officers in a formal business plan presentation, with internal agreeement that the reveal was going to take place at X date, but it is now later than that date, was it delayed? Even if we outsiders never officially knew about that initially proposed reveal date? Or very similarly, if it was going to be originally revealed at NYAS, but we do not see the car until sometime this summer, but no one outside of GM was never officially told it was NYAS, was/is the mid engine Corvette delayed?

Rumors or fact, time will tell. And most importantly, is that GM is smartly taking whatever time it needs to get the mid engine Corvette completely and properly developed.

[JB Senior Contributing Member & Patron Find all posts View Profile Close JB]

C8 might have come in over its target weight and the adoption of a 48 volt system might have helped lower the weight increase to acceptable levels.

if thats the case the extra grand gm needs to charge for the c8 is no big deal...

if any of this is true...nobody knows yet...

one day soon hopefully gm will reveal this vehicle and all its specifications so we can decide if we want to buy one...

thankfully its a matter of months and not years like acura did with the sales failure of the NSX.

[John forum co-founder & admin Find all posts View Profile Close John]

[Brian Kissel Founding Member & Sr. Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Brian Kissel]

I think if $1500.00 one way or the other is going to make or break a sale, perhaps the C7 would be a better choice for that person, because we already know that pricing. Too many people are getting worked up over this I think. Let them reveal it, price it, THEN decide if it is truly something you can afford or desire. As I said a little while ago, I was thinking Mclaren, but there is too much BAD press about it. I guess I'm going to wait and see, and quit blaming GM for trying to sell a good product the first time around. Just my thoughts, yours may vary.

Regards Brian

[John forum co-founder & admin Find all posts View Profile Close John]

Brian, lots of wisdom in your post. We each make purchasing decisions based on many things, starting with do we want it, and of course can we afford it being another critical one. And lastly as you noted, we are each going to wait until we see how it looks, what its performance specs are too — for such things are also key issues for us all.

[ltomn Founder, Sr. Contributor & Patron Find all posts View Profile Close ltomn]

A 48V system is not a show off thing. It's a necessity! Please don't let this scare you! No one knows what they have until they have to jump it with cables.

[Boomer ZORA Patron, Founder & Sr. Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Boomer]

Guess the CTEK I use on my C7 wouldn't work with a 48 volt system.

[Bikerjulio Founding Member & Sr. Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Bikerjulio]

This number comes from Delphi

The advantages of the new 48-volt systems are considerable. They offer fuel economy improvements of up to 15 percent, Ms. Gustanski said, and would cost an automaker between $650 and $1,000 to add to the vehicle

And there are a couple of things to say about that.

Firstly Delphi are not going to quote their best price on a public stage. GM may not be paying anything like that.

Secondly, there may be offsetting savings on components like an alternator and starter no longer needed, and other motors that can be smaller and lighter.

All together I'm not worried about a price impact from this.

It would be a surprise and disappointment if GM had only recently decided to adopt this system on the C8, as it would signal some pretty poor management. So, I have to think that it's been in the plan for several years.

It's true that this is all based on rumor. However, when I read up on 48V systems the advantages seemed so obvious that it was only surprising it hadn't been done sooner. And without it, the C8 really will look like "old technology". You'll see a lot of Euro mild hybrids soon Next gen Golf for 2020 is said to have it for instance.

[Mobius Forum Founding & Sr. Contributing Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mobius]

Guess the CTEK I use on my C7 wouldn't work with a 48 volt system.

Based on the OP, there is still a 12V battery... So take a deep sigh of relief Boomer - you'll be able to use your CTEK and jump-start the C8 in a conventional manner.

[meyerweb Forum Founder, Sr. Content Contributor & Patron Find all posts View Profile Close meyerweb]

Are there any other American cars, or cars currently sold in America, with 48 volt electrical systems?

[Milliwatt Rob ZORA Patron & Sr. Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Milliwatt Rob]

Guess the CTEK I use on my C7 wouldn't work with a 48 volt system.

You would have to connect four CTEKs in series.

[Milliwatt Rob ZORA Patron & Sr. Contributor Find all posts View Profile Close Milliwatt Rob]

There is regenerated power recovered during braking. Suggests to me some kind of low power hybrid system for driving the car on battery power through urban slow traffic, possibly combined with start-stop technology. All to avoid a gas guzzler tax.