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C8 Z06 is later than we wish — but NOT due to development nor engineering issues

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  • #16
    Sales of the stingray are so strong, so backed up why would Corvette marketing rush the c8 z06 to the media much less the showroom.

    lets see the corvette production at least meet demand befire reigniting the automotive press much less the customers when the bowling green factory can not meet existing demand.

    i fully expect price increases on the stingray once supply begins to catch up to demand...

    i dont say this to be ride as I too am a very happy owner of the c8 stingray yet once the z06 and then the E ray (or visaversa) and the grand sport hit the showrooms...

    my beloved...our beloved stingray will be a slight step child...GM would be foolish to launch the z06 too early and screw around with the goose that laid the golden egg..

    the 2001 c5 z06 was born of a sales dud the billybob model that nobody really wanted.

    gm upped the power 35 hp, added whider wheels and non runflat tires...threw in a lighter wondshield and titanium exhaust and some suspension tuning and called it a z06...

    the c5 launched in 1997 and the z06 launched 5 model years later ...

    just about the time a two anything used to get stale in the marketplace...with regards to consumer demand...

    launching the c8 z06 should theoretically best held back at the very least for three model years if not four or five...

    im sure the corvette team will move sooner than my suggestion..lbut maximizing profits and sales...the longer GM waits for the z06 the better for their programs long term profitability.

    moving the E ray up would help beat tesla to karket and be a great halo vehicle for GMs leadership in ev technology spearheading the media and then walllstreet favor.

    ymmv

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    • #17
      Originally posted by JB View Post
      Sales of the stingray are so strong, so backed up why would Corvette marketing rush the c8 z06 to the media much less the showroom.

      lets see the corvette production at least meet demand befire reigniting the automotive press much less the customers when the bowling green factory can not meet existing demand.

      i fully expect price increases on the stingray once supply begins to catch up to demand...

      i dont say this to be ride as I too am a very happy owner of the c8 stingray yet once the z06 and then the E ray (or visaversa) and the grand sport hit the showrooms...

      my beloved...our beloved stingray will be a slight step child...GM would be foolish to launch the z06 too early and screw around with the goose that laid the golden egg..

      the 2001 c5 z06 was born of a sales dud the billybob model that nobody really wanted.

      gm upped the power 35 hp, added whider wheels and non runflat tires...threw in a lighter wondshield and titanium exhaust and some suspension tuning and called it a z06...

      the c5 launched in 1997 and the z06 launched 5 model years later ...

      just about the time a two anything used to get stale in the marketplace...with regards to consumer demand...

      launching the c8 z06 should theoretically best held back at the very least for three model years if not four or five...

      im sure the corvette team will move sooner than my suggestion..lbut maximizing profits and sales...the longer GM waits for the z06 the better for their programs long term profitability.

      moving the E ray up would help beat tesla to karket and be a great halo vehicle for GMs leadership in ev technology spearheading the media and then walllstreet favor.

      ymmv
      2001 Corvette sales were not that bad - Thanks to Vettefacts.com

      Production Options and Build Statistics


      Total 2001 Corvettes Built - 35,627
      Total 2001 Coupes - 15,681
      Total 2001 Convertibles - 14,173
      Total 2001 Z06s - 5,773

      My view is different for their release of the C8 ZO6 -(I waited Impatiently for the Stingray) (GM Should at Least Reveal Projected Production for the C8 ZO6) Those of us who have been loyal customers deserve at least that. It will be more profitable and should be produced alongside of the Stingray.
      With the (Events) going on in the world a major market pullback would extremely diminish sales. With the recent market capitulation there could be a huge correction as market has been held up with Hopes which are not playing out very well for the overall market. Bottom line is $$$$. ZO6 will be much more profitable and while they have the interest they should run with it. Just my opinion. We shall see how it plays out. But in my specific situation - if we do not get any reveal for the ZO6 before the end of the year my interest will be lost and I will be purchasing another manufacturers vehicle for the New Year (2022). This waiting game totally sucked for the 2020. Those of us who come up with the $$$$ will not endure that unknown waiting again.

      Obviously I cannot blame them for the Stingray because of the Events we all know were Beyond Their Control. However Give us at least a Projection.
      If I wander around in the dark too long with money in my hand I know I'm going to spend it elsewhere.
      Rocket City Florida

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      • #18
        Im with you that the delays (not GM s fault) was a drag. Fwiw the 2001 c5 z06 was awesome. The corvette sales I was referring to was the lacking sales of the fixed roof coupe for two years earlier. 1999 and 2000 model year sales of the fixed roof sales ...the billie bob model was a sales failure and thats when bringing out the z06 model came out and was a huge hit. That was my point my friend.

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        THe slightly barely less expensive billybob fixed roof coupe in 1999 and 2000 didnt really find the buyers as GM thought they might.

        my favorite corvette is literally the 2001 c5 z06. They also priced the z06 frc hot rodded corvette to equal the price point of the same model year convertible. (THat part has changed for sure but the z06 has evolved into a monster these days)

        im sure you guys will get your c8 z06 s by 2022....

        my point is the corvette team with such a huge sales hit the c8 is...would have been well served if they set possible z06 sales even further out...

        when the z06 releases the stingray sales would possibly weaken a little bit....just a nature of the car world beast...

        bringing out a c8 z06 one model year after the launch of the stingray is a little early...(with the c8 proving to be a huge sales success)

        i can guarantee the corvette marketing team isnt listening to old JB....


        im not getting on another waiting list ever again in my lifetime. I have no regrets and I love my c8 ...im just not doing that for another corvette. I usually buy in the 3 rd year of production as demand wanes just a little bit so my wait would be all of seven weeks from order to delivery.


        i recommend anyone whose on a c8 reservation list ....the vehicle is awesome and worth the wait. Given my personal situation...im just not personally going to do that again. If I see the c8 z06 is a twin turbo flat plane crank...Ill be drooling and envious of you guys for sure.....so what do I know...im the only one left who believes the c8 z06 will be a 4 liter flat plane crank twin turbo...

        im ok being proven wrong...i just dont see the corvette team being satisfied with ferrari 458 like performance levels like the naturally aspirated ferrari 458...

        i expect ferrari f488 levels of performance


        i believe the c8 delay is designed to give the c8 stingray sales demand time to breath....for a little while longer to get as many sales out of the current consumer demand hit as possible.



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        • #19
          1999 c5 fixed roof couoe 4000 units
          2000 c5 fixed roof coupe 2000 units

          it was brought to market a few grand less than the hatchback targa z51 and the frc was a sales dud...so then the c5 z06 was brought to life and 2001 frc sales nearly tripled to 5773 units. (Model year frc 2000 to model year 2001 z06)

          GM edict for the c5 was a minimum of 25000 annual sales or the program was considered a failure...so Dave figured the hatchback, the convertible and a lower cost frc version...sales of the c5 were a hit and just the slightly lower priced frc was a little soft...so the c5 z06 was born.

          personally i prefer the c5 z06 concept of performance improvements where the z06 version starts at the same msrp as the upmodel convertible model rather than a 25 or 30 grand but thats why the grand sport model has been such a great sales success.

          i apologize for being such a contrarian these days yet I believe the grand sport nameplate is coming back as well..

          in the second half of a corvette generation...the grand sport model maybe in the c8 with wide body or wider wheel and tire package and a slightly higher hp output would be the sales unit champion.

          we are just shooting the breeze...i sure as heck have no inside information and its all conjecture on my part.

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          • #20
            I think where IMSA and GM are involved....
            With COVID being a factor, I'm going to guess that they've worked out a rollout deal with IMSA for how long the car has been delayed vs the 2 MY mandate. Add to that, the changes in IMSA now coming.... I think those ideas are our the window now.
            That said, I think you COULD see a dual release/teaser of the road and track versions perhaps towards the end of the year ( maybe @ Petit ) showing off the new GTD-Pro car and the Z. Would be fitting since that's where we 1st saw the un-camo'd C8R take its 1st laps.

            Interesting take on the plant production #s and how the RHD cars could have been made AND the CTF/pre-production/mules could have been slipped in there as well. With the plant being closed to the public, it's far easier to do. Even these past days here and there where #s are down from the 180+/day could be that they are slipping ones in here and there.
            Brian Huber
            Previous Corvettes
            2002 Z06 - SCCA autocross car - 58SSR ( Sold 4/20 )
            2003 Vert - Wife's stress relief/therapy car ( Sold 7/20 )

            2021 Coupe Black #6936 - Natural two-tone. 2LT, Mag-ride, NPP, Edge Red Calipers. NCM delivery ( Status 3000 as of 1/11/21 , 3300 as of 2/16/21, 3400 as of 3/9/21, 3800 as of 3/15/21, NCM Delivery 3/29)

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            • #21
              Grazie John!!! Great analysis and info...

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              • #22
                Here's my opinion based on history ALONE. One of the first prodcution ready mules for the C8 was caught at McDonalds in a drive through October of 2017.Why do I say production ready? Because it appears different than any other mule up to that point AND whatever is under the camo was the final design. How many were built by this point? Who knows....Any other mule we see from that date until the reveal was the same car with beefed up padding at different
                times for the sake of disguise.

                The reveal date was announced in April of 2019 to be July of 2019. That's 21 months from the McDonalds sighting. However, there were rumors floating around after the McDonalds sighting that the reveal was delayed by 6 months for electrical issues and the original reveal was supposed to be in Januaray of 2019. I was told in February of 2019 at Kerbeck that most dealers were told the reveal was to be in January and then crickets. I believe the delay was legit. That means from McDonalds to January of 2019 was 14 months. In others words, by the time we saw that car at McDonalds GM knew they were **** near close to completion
                with another year of development. Forecasting if you will.

                The first alleged Z06 mule was caught running around in the snow December or January of 2020, 5 months after the reveal. Before that, we had the alleged steering wheel leak. That's almost exactly how it went with the C7Z06. In fact, the C7Z06 debuted 1 year after the C7 Stingray. Standard OP for GM with the Corvette. Since January of 2020 there have been numerous public signtings of theses mules. Whatever is underneath the camo looks to be a finished product, just like the Stingray at McDonalds. In other words, short of seeing the motor, the cars are all identical (except maybe the exhaust) and there have been 5-10 running around at different times together. Many think they are testing 2 different variants. Okay? In the last 2 gens when have we seen GM testing multiple variants at the same time?

                Enter COVID and the changes mentioned by John above. Add 4-6 months of development issues and where does that put us? It puts us exactly where we'd be with the Stingray,12 months to originally planned reveal and now 18 months to modified reveal. That equates to a 2022 debut. This is based purely on history and sightings so far.

                A few more notes...

                1. GM has pushed variants out despite interest or demand. They leaked photos of the mules we've seen 5 months after the reveal of the Base model knowing how high the demand is. Why? To keep people interested for 2 more years? They don't do that.

                2. Willow springs showed a car testing w/no camo. If you can't do testing at the Nurburgring right now and you need to put laps in to the platform you can't do it with camo so the idea that camoed pics reveal a car not ready for reveal isn't accurate. It's runningn around without prying eyes as that staged leak had the footage from a mile away.

                3. Why would GM delay the reveal of a TT or NA gas powered car in lieu of something electrified when they just revealed to Cadillacs yesterday (live stream tonight) that are almost 700 SC horepower?

                I'm leaning at a 22' model Z06 not just because of my wants, but history. Accounting for COVID too.

                Side Note: I wouldn't tie my money up for 2 years waiting for a car as someone else said here. I would lose interest. If this car is quite far out....why keep dropping staged leaks? That makes no sense. Especially just to reveal it's coming in 2 years and not next year.
                Last edited by foreignbishop; 02-02-2021, 08:20 AM.

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                • #23
                  It makes sense to me that if GM was totally shut down for at least 4 1/2 weeks that Z06 development stopped completely during that time period. I want my Z06 but only when Tadge and crew has finished developing it. Take your time until you are ready to share it.

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                  • #24
                    Note to worry about that. Tadge and team will only present the Z06 when they are ready to share its prowess. Just like the C8 blew our socks off with under $60K to start and under 3.0 seconds to 60 MPH (as well as blowing the socks, shoes and pants off our competitors), I am not concerned in the slightest. Will wait until T&T are ready to release it. Sure I wish that were tonight, but if not until quite a while, the wait for the Z8 Z06 will be worth it.
                    GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by John View Post
                      Note to worry about that. Tadge and team will only present the Z06 when they are ready to share its prowess. Just like the C8 blew our socks off with under $60K to start and under 3.0 seconds to 60 MPH (as well as blowing the socks, shoes and pants off our competitors), I am not concerned in the slightest. Will wait until T&T are ready to release it. Sure I wish that were tonight, but if not until quite a while, the wait for the Z8 Z06 will be worth it.
                      I completely agree and wouldn't want an unfinished product. I know what it's like to experience limp mode in the last generation's Z06. With that being said, why stage leaks for something that's a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY OFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF? I'm saying, at the McDonald's sighting, barring any issues, they figured to reveal the base model 14 months later. Barring Any Issues happened, and it turned into 20 months later. Leaked pics, driving around, testing with competitors, testing in multiples, testing at high altitude, and track time all make me think this car is closer than it is further away, barring any hiccups and based on previous reveals.

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                      • #26
                        We all hope you are right!
                        GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 23 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

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                        • #27
                          Im hopeful we see the twin turbo dohc 4 liter flat plane crank c8 z06 will be a superstar...
                          sometime in 2022 is probably the latest GM could get away with delaying the z06 before the internet rumor mill would wrongly assume there was something wrong with the vehicle.

                          ill have a good laugh when Im proven wrong about the powertrain.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by JB View Post
                            Im hopeful we see the twin turbo dohc 4 liter flat plane crank c8 z06 will be a superstar...
                            sometime in 2022 is probably the latest GM could get away with delaying the z06 before the internet rumor mill would wrongly assume there was something wrong with the vehicle.

                            ill have a good laugh when Im proven wrong about the powertrain.
                            Considering that GM developed the 5.5L DOHC engine the likelihood they are developing a 4.0L is unlikely. But it is not to far a stretch to go with twin turbos.

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                            • #29
                              SOme love naturally aspirated while in this age of fuel economy during testing and emissions requirements i lean towards twin turbos.

                              im sure the c8 z06 will be awesome

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                              • #30
                                I don't think there has been any definitive information on sales of the Stingray for '21, and whether there are any allocations available. While we know the initial sales are great, has that carried through for the entire build year? Then you have to add the overseas production, including the right hand drive cars. What is the demand in Japan, Australia, Great Britain, etc? Corvette has always brought out the "next model" of production when sales start to slow. When is that? I know they have to keep us on the hook, but what is the purpose of new models-to get new sales. If you are selling all you can build, why change?
                                Ceramic Gray Metallic Z51 w/TT interior Spec Grey Wheels

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