Tremec TR-9007 DCT For the ME

[John]

According to Road and Track, it is thinking that not only will that be the DCT for the C8, but that it is probably the same one in the new Mustang GT500 — or at least what R&T is conjecturing. This is not new thinking as far as we many of us have been thinking here — though some think it it would be another DCT manufacturer.

Here is our earlier thread on this very potential DCT for the C8.

https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...dct-for-the-me

What do you think?

The Mustang GT500 and Mid-Engine Corvette Might Share Gearboxes

Ford and Chevy's hottest performance cars will likely share a key component.
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BY BOZI TATAREVIC
JAN 14, 2019

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DW BURNETT/PUPPYKNUCKLES

We’ve heard rumors that dual clutch transmissions are finally going to make their way into domestic muscle cars like the Mustang and Corvette, and an employee newsletter from a supplier may confirm that high-powered variants of both cars will share versions of the same gearbox.

Pictured above: 2020 Shelby GT500

There has been lots of speculation about the mid-engine Corvette and one of the rumors has stated that it could go dual-clutch only and ditch the manual transmission. The upcoming Mustang GT500 was rumored to be dual-clutch since mules were spotted with fast shifting transmissions and now, with its release this morning, that swap to a DCT has been confirmed.

There are multiple dual-clutch transmission on the market that can handle a high amount of torque but the Corvette and the Mustang have traditionally avoided using exotic gearboxes. Speculation has been that they both might use the new DCT that is being developed by Tremec. This type of partnership makes sense as Tremec has traditionally supplied manual transmission for both vehicles.

A recently revealed employee newsletter for a Tremec supplier shows that our speculation could be correct. The transmissions that are illustrated in the supplier newsletter are the Tremec TR-7007 and TR-9007 DCTs. Originally sent in late 2017, the newsletter stated that Tremec contacted the supplier, Fassler, in early 2016 regarding a new project called “GM-DCT.” That would be GM's first dual clutch transmission and could support up to 664 lb-ft of torque.


TREMEC

The newsletter notes that the transmission was developed in Belgium, with manufacturing in Querétaro, Mexico and final assembly in the US. The supplier says it will provide gear honing machines to Tremec in order to hone all 23 gears, shafts, and wheels that will be going into this transmission. The contract for this gear honing machine was awarded in June of 2017, and the first machine was to be delivered in January, 2018 at which time Tremec started pilot production.

That was not the end of the story. Tremec sent an additional order for more machines in late summer 2017, since they had received a new project dubbed “Ford-DCT.” The newsletter states that they had to modify two more honing machines since the new Ford transmission would be a variant of the GM DCT and use similar parts. The newsletter speculated that the two vehicles to receive these new DCTs would be the Mustang Shelby GT350 and the mid-engine Corvette.

Although they speculate that the DCT will end up in the GT350, we now know that it will definitely be in the GT500. All of this information leads us to the likely scenario of the Mustang GT500 and the mid-engine Corvette sharing the TR-9007 dual clutch transmission as that variant would support the massive torque.

In addition to industry sources and the newsletter above, social media profiles for Tremec employee in Querétaro show that they have been working on gears for a new dual clutch transmission that they list as being for a General Motors & Ford platform.

Now we know that the GT500 has the gearbox. We'll just have to wait to find out what Chevy will put in the mid-engine Corvette. Of course, that means they'll have to confirm that they’re building it. We hope to find out more later this year.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-sho...-transmission/

[John]

For those who don’t grade themselves as not yet having excellent knowledge of what’s a DCT and how it works, another of our earlier threads.

https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...ng-about-a-dct

[Mobius]

The Tremec TR-9007 makes sense to me.

https://www.midenginecorvetteforum.c...7114#post17114

[Mobius]

Here's the Spec Sheet for the TR-7007 and TR-9007: http://www.tremec.com/anexos/File/TR...ansmission.pdf

It looks like the TR-7007 may be suitable for the base and Z-51 ME (516 lb-ft), while the TR-9007 would be suitable for the Z06 (664 lb-ft)...

Some expect that the Z06 turbo motor will produce more HP than torque, kinda like the 2019 Ferrari 488GTB twin turbo:

DISPLACEMENT: 238 cu in, 3902 cc
POWER: 710 hp @ 8000 rpm
TORQUE: 568 lb-ft @ 3000 rpm

[John]

Thank you Mobius!

[meyerweb]

Same internals, perhaps, but definitely not the same exact transmission for the Front Engine Rear Wheel drive car and a mid-engine with a true transaxle.

Unless Ford has given the Cobra a torque tube and a transaxle at the rear.

[Z_Rocks]

If Ford went with DCT for the Mustang GT500, I have no doubt, GM will do the same.
BUT, as I said before NO MANUAL = NO SALE FOR ME!

[John]

Z-Rocks, I have only driven manual transmissions my whole life., e.g, 53 vehicles in a row.

I am choosing to embrace the ME’s DCT — though I have yet to ever used one (based on several friends who have driven recent euro-exotics, hate regular automatic transmissions as our Corvette have now, yet say DCT’s a great new world for me to explore).

I respect you for not going down that path, and if you buy something else that has a manual, I am excited for you.

I am curious and have one question please, are you saying this from having tried a recent DCT and your not liking it, or are you thinking that as you have tried regular automatics and totally hated them (as I have and do), that you 99.99% sure it is not even worth one test drive?

[Z_Rocks]

Z-Rocks, I have only driven manual transmissions my whole life., e.g, 53 vehicles in a row.

I am choosing to embrace the ME’s DCT — though I have yet to ever used one (based on several friends who have driven recent euro-exotics, hate regular automatic transmissions as our Corvette have now, yet say DCT’s a great new world for me to explore).

I respect you for not going down that path, and if you buy something else that has a manual, I am excited for you.

I am curious and have one question please, are you saying this from having tried a recent DCT and your not liking it, or are you thinking that as you have tried regular automatics and totally hated them (as I have and do), that you 99.99% sure it is not even worth one test drive?

Hi John;

Thanks for asking;
I have driven high HP "Automatic" including friend's Z06 in curvy roads and I hated it, because the timing of the automatic shiffter, when I wanted to maintain in certain gear (via manual, I could not achieve that control because.as soon as the rev would go up, it would shift and I'd lose my RPM power sweet range. For straight drag racing, it's easy to put your foot down and the transmission do the work. So the auto was the worst

Then my cousin bought a Lambo (AWD DCT) and I was in Miami i Coconut Grove with lots of twisty roads and he asked me to drive it. DCT is MUCH MORE controllable than Auto and you can keep/force the car to stay in the RPM you want, but mentally and from muscle memory, it was more hassle to drive it with paddles than If I had a manual clutch. I don't want to "Think" or look at the screen which gear I'm in or mentally figure out to press left pedal or right pedal. With manual, I could have a full conversation wit someone and do my shifting with zero thinking.

This exact thing happened when I drove my friend's GT-R, I hated it and I mean it. My modified Z06 had over 700 RWHP and I had 100% control over the car even in rain, with clutch and manual tranny. I could fully drive it sideways with control.

After driving for 45 years manual and how *I* can control the car, the shift timing and how I can make music with that RPM, I can't do it with a car that is controlled by computer.

For me it's NOT about going fast, it's about engagement with the car and make it do what I want.
In 1976 I had a VW Superbeetle with twin carburetors and you should have seen me how I drove it, as if I had a Porsche 911.

That's me, if I can't get pleasure from that car, why should I buy it. I go buy a Mustang GT350 or C7 Z06 or some import manual.

[John]

Thank you very much for your concise information and reasoning. Much appreciated.

[Z_Rocks]

Thank you very much for your concise information and reasoning. Much appreciated.

Sure, but I highly suggest to test drive a DCT within city with stop and go before you buy one. You have to live with it.

[zishan]

I have also found the initial transition to a DCT 'clunky'. For me it was like re-learning how to drive a manual.

[John]

Point well made for same, and when DCT’s came out, there were far from good. A point, ironically, made by Tadge himself, i..e., I remember Tadge stating, while he was defending the C7’s 6A at the April, 2013 BASH, saying that at” low speeds and low RPM, DCT’s were clunky.”

Some are still needing help according to Fasttoys who has owned many, driven almost all of them — including 2018’s of almost every brand in top end sports cars.. He however says that some are really good, that so much depends on how well the OEM has sorted/adjusted its ECU to work smoothly with him.

He will be back shortly, and I would love for him to comment on which ones works really well. Perhaps he is in internet range today; if not tomorrow. I will bring this thread to his attention.

[Busa Dave]

John-----EXACTLY! It as in so many cases not how good the hardware is but the software!!!!!! Most people have no idea but that is why our military aircraft perform so well.....

[Fasttoys]

I prefer a DCT over any automatic transmission. If you have identical cars on a track but one is a DCT and the other is a manual the DCT is faster. I do agree that a manual is more engaging to drive. But remember software, engine and gear alignment is key to a good feeling DCT. I say go drive a new Audi R8, Mclaren, Porsche or Ferrari and you will see what I mean. They all feel a little different, the Porsche is smooth and very precise (I think its to good which makes it boring). My DCT in my 2010 BMW/M3 V8 is a little clunky compared to the newer M3. Mine is a first gen BMW DCT, as the previous had single-clutch trans called SMG like my 2006 BMW/M5 V10. The SMG was crazy harsh, felt sorry for my passengers, it felt like a baseball bat hitting you in the back of the head on full WOT hard fast shifts.

NEW ME DCT: Will it be like a manual transmission unfortunately NOPE! Is it fun and engaging YES downshifts should be a blast with popping sounds coming from the exhaust. The key for GM is getting the trans software aligned with the motor. I think the new ME even with the lower HP motor will be fast and close to C7 Z06 speeds.