Tremec vs ZF DCT For The ME

[John]

There are strong opinion differences are to whether the 2020 ME would have a Tremec or a ZF DCT. What do you think will be the C8’s DCT?



Here’s a starter to this discussion, a 2016 business investment article —thanks and credit to Zaro Tundov.

Mexico City-based auto supplier Tremec to establish U.S. headquarters in Wixom

A Mexico City-based automotive supplier will invest $54 million to establish a manufacturing facility in Wixom, a move that will create 133 jobs, the Michigan Economic Development Corp. announced Thursday.

Tremec Corp., a wholly-owned business unit of Kuo Group, plans to lease and equip a new building at 46643 Ryan Ct. to serve as the company's U.S. headquarters, sales and technical center, as well as an advanced automotive transmission production operation, according to the MEDC.The project represents the company's first major manufacturing operation in the U.S.

Tremec, founded in 1964, established operations in Michigan in 1975 and today has 27 employees at its technical and sales office in Plymouth Township. The 1,450-employee company produces transmissions, torque components and powertrain products for high-performance vehicles, including passenger, commercial and heavy duty vehicles.

Tremec on Thursday won a $731,500 performance-based grant from the Michigan Strategic Fund, a division of MEDC.

"Tremec's expansion in Michigan rather than other states means excellent, well-paying jobs for Michigan residents and underscores the strength of the talent in the state's automotive sector," MEDC CEO Steve Arwood said in a news release.

The new facility will allow Tremec to make investments and create jobs related to the design, development and manufacture of transmission and other powertrain products for the North American automotive and heavy equipment sectors, according to the MEDC.

It said the grant was needed because while Michigan provides access to domestic automotive companies, a competing site in Indiana offers access to domestic automotive producers in the Midwest and closer proximity to foreign-owned automotive plants in Indiana and in the South.

The city of Wixom has offered Tremec a property tax abatement.

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/articl...s-headquarters

[John]

Does this help (one of the leaked ME CAD drawings)?

[meyerweb]

I think people may read too much into the CAD images. We know nothing about their provenance. Were these really related to production plans, or are they concept drawings? Were there a dozen different sets of CAD drawings based on multiple options? Are they for the base car, or some future high performance option that may or may not get built? I'm not sure we can draw many conclusions from them.

Aside from that, will they use ZF or Tremec? All most of us can do is guess. But we can discuss the factors that might go into such a decision. We know GM has a long history of working with Tremec, which implies a certain level of satisfaction. We know Tremec bought a company that makes high performance DCTs for other car manufacturers, including Ferrari. So it has the know-how to do it right (read reviews of recent Ferrari products and they all rave about the shifting). And a [pending] contract from GM for a high performance DCT could certainly be a motivating factor for that acquisition. From the OP, we know Tremec is building a new facility in Michigan. Of course, if it were in Bowling Green that would mean a lot more. The new facility may or may not be building DCTs, and it's products could be destined for lots of other cars, not the Corvette.

On the flip side, we also know ZF builds highly rated DCTs. ZF also has plants in the U.S. To my knowledge (which is far from complete) GM doesn't use ZF transmissions in any of their current U.S. products, but may overseas. I don't know.

In the end, the bottom line counts for a lot, so whichever company can supply the component cheaper will have the inside line. But relationships matter, too, so GM's history with Tremec will count for a lot.

My 2 cents worth.

[John]

Excellent questions meyerweb!

[Frenzy36]

My bet is on Tremec as well. Hopefully in a short time we will find out.

[Skank]

I've used Auto-CAD and Power-CAD and I can assure you they don't draw different variations of different supplier vendor components for the fun of it. Once they select a vendor such as ZF which is clearly shown on their CADCAM files from the Code Name Zerv Thread ( On another forum) they are engineering all contiguous components and are continually testing for interference for position, noise, vibration, and heat control.

[Bikerjulio]

All I know from reading the forums over the past 10 months or so, is that every article written about the C8 seems to say "Tremec DCT" with the C&D one back in the spring seeming pretty certain. And I can see no reason why they would make it up.

Is there even one reputable auto journalist who has suggested it's going to be ZF?

[meyerweb]

No, they don't do it "for the fun of it." But they might well do it while design and sourcing decisions are still up in the air, or if different versions of the car will have difference component sets.

[Bikerjulio]

No, they don't do it "for the fun of it." But they might well do it while design and sourcing decisions are still up in the air, or if different versions of the car will have difference component sets.

And the "leak" showing a ZF trans might be useful when discussing price with Tremec.

[ltomn]

This is a classic example of the Emperor and his new clothes! The ZF transmission is staring you right in the face and you are calling it a Tremec!! Paleezzzzzzz.....

[meyerweb]

^^^

If you make the assumption that the leaked CAD images actually represent production, which we really don't know.

[JB]

Does it actually matter who manufacturers the dct...i have complete confidence it will be the best in the industry...

of course im biased

[Bikerjulio]

This is a classic example of the Emperor and his new clothes! The ZF transmission is staring you right in the face and you are calling it a Tremec!! Paleezzzzzzz.....

I'm doing nothing of the sort.

It's quite possible, even probable, that several years ago when the engineering team was trying to make the decision on the transmission, they would have evaluated several options. Yes?

And in the course of that evaluation, and since it was so important, they ordered CAD drawings of each option. Yes?

And later, by accident or design, one of those old CADs got leaked. Possible?

Were GM so unhappy with their existing supplier - Tremec, that they sole sourced the new trans to ZF? I Don't think so.

In fact it seems like they were happy with Tremec, but one doesn't want a supplier to get complacent now does one? So to keep Tremec on their toes they would make it clear that other options were being considered.

I asked above whether any reputable source or journalist had suggested that ZF got the nod. Well have they?

In fact there was one of our "inside" sources earlier this year that in addition to every journalist, said that it was Tremec. Can't remember which one now.

[Skank]

^^^

If you make the assumption that the leaked CAD images actually represent production, which we really don't know.

Yes, of course we can make the assumption that a leaked CADCAM file actually represents a logical production direction. People that have never used powerful engineering software have no idea how much time is involved in the interference process. There are thousands of hours that go into this process by a large group of various engineers and designers. All input has to be tested and analyzed for production relative to the manufacturing technology being used. 3D printing is a good example of a new technology that is morphing from design/engineering analysis to actual production of part fabrication and mass manufacturing of that part. All the body panels and fascia's are still done at Mold and Die Fabrication companies such as Omega. The Mold for the C7 front fascia in the Youtube video below cost over a million dollars according to the Omega engineer I talked to. So, no they just don't arbitrarily change up part or component design on a whim.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3v1_jMRQir8
http://omegatoolcorp.com

[Skank]

I'm doing nothing of the sort.

It's quite possible, even probable, that several years ago when the engineering team was trying to make the decision on the transmission, they would have evaluated several options. Yes?

And in the course of that evaluation, and since it was so important, they ordered CAD drawings of each option. Yes?

And later, by accident or design, one of those old CADs got leaked. Possible?

Were GM so unhappy with their existing supplier - Tremec, that they sole sourced the new trans to ZF? I Don't think so.

In fact it seems like they were happy with Tremec, but one doesn't want a supplier to get complacent now does one? So to keep Tremec on their toes they would make it clear that other options were being considered.

I asked above whether any reputable source or journalist had suggested that ZF got the nod. Well have they?

In fact there was one of our "inside" sources earlier this year that in addition to every journalist, said that it was Tremec. Can't remember which one now.

Sorry Bikerjulio, that's not how component selection is done. They do engage different component manufacturers to submit bids for a component, but they absolutely do not order or waste expensive engineering time drawing up various vendor components. Tadge has discussed this very process in one of my Ask Tadge questions a while back.