MECF_728x90_top

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
1 of 3 < >

Corvette Today Podcast IS On Now With CorvetteBlogger and Steve Garrett

Steve Garrett and CorvetteBlogger Keith Cornett examine “Corvette Headlines & News” for mid-September 2020. https://anchor.fm/steve-garrett/epis...rftb Included in this episode are: The Corvette Visualizer for 2021 is now online; The National Corvette Museum raffles off the 1.75 millionth Corvette; Electric, all-wheel drive Corvette possibly coming out in 2023;Country Music star George Jones’ Corvette gets donated to the NCM;.....and more!Stay current on what's going on in the world of Corvette with this episode of CORVETTE TODAY!
2 of 3 < >

FOLLOW THIS FORUM RULE!

All shall follow this forum rule:

“11. Do not post URL links to any product or service that is offered by a forum vendor. Exception: If the product or service you wish to link is one that you know is not offered by a forum supporting vendor, you may post that link. Examples of the latter could include tools, common products like duct/electrical tape, motor oil, and/or providers of specialized upgrade, maintenance or repair services.”

You may use a non forum business name, posting such as, “I buy at Joe’s” but again may not post a link to nor a URL of Joe’s.
See more
See less

Tricky To Bleed C8 Brakes

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Tricky To Bleed C8 Brakes

    Thanks Andy Bolig and LSX magazine. I enjoyed meeting Andy at the 10.2 HTC reveal. Thanks Andy for helping us learn more about the C8. Thanks Lou Gigliotti for the video. Lou is a super skilled racer, was the owner of LG Motorsports, and has done a ton for our Corvettes’ racing reputation and knowledge for over 30 years.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	660014C0-D0C8-440C-B8F8-6055CF1EE641.jpeg
Views:	2972
Size:	68.6 KB
ID:	130440

    Originally posted by LSXmagazine

    Bleeding C8 Corvette Brakes Can Be Tricky And Expensive!


    By ANDY BOLIG MARCH 23, 2020

    C8 Corvettes are getting modified almost as quickly as they are getting unloaded from the transport haulers. We’ve seen various nitrous setups, and even a twin-turbo version hitting the information super-highway. There is so much about this new car that everyone is trying to learn at their own rate, and sometimes, it’s the supposedly simple stuff that can throw you a curve.

    A perfect example is shown in this video recently posted by the folks at LG Motorsports. They’ve been running fluid through brake bleeders longer than some of their customers have been alive. They know a thing or two about brake fluid and putting the new stuff in where it belongs. But, as we said, GM’s latest supercar is such a new bird, that it’s tossing many folks back to the starting board, even for some of the simple stuff.

    In the video, the person doing the talking explains that GM instructs technicians to use the appropriate GM adapter to do a pressure-bleed the brakes whenever necessary. We’re sure the folks at GM didn’t expect the car’s all-but-new brake fluid to be flushed so soon, but thanks to this video, we see why the suggest doing it this way. Apparently, according to this video, there is another chamber filled with fluid besides the typical reservoir. By bleeding the brakes in the usual way of pumping the brake pedal, you can induce air into that additional chamber. The very thing you’re trying to eliminate by bleeding the brakes!

    The video host explains, in the C8, you don’t have a mechanical link to the brake master cylinder. This means you won’t have the visceral feedback like you would have on a typical assembly. And, you guessed it, your brake pedal can now throw codes, and we’re not talking about the usual “low brake fluid” type stuff. Now, the brake pedal has a travel sensor to register the amount of brake pedal movement. This lets the car know when you start to get a “long pedal” situation. Typically a long pedal occurs due to low fluid or air in the line.



    When that happens, the sensor tells all the electronic wizardry that something is amiss, and you get the world’s newest code, telling you electronically what you would have found out thank to the pressure (or lack of) against the bottom of your New Balance sneaker. Also, there’s not just one, but TWO codes to cover this condition. Appropriately named “Fade Warning 1” and “Fade Warning 2”, each
    one has varying levels of a mushroom cloud attached to them.

    According to the video, “Fade Warning 1” means you should stop, and fix the problem. In the video, the host explains it this way, “Do not pass go, do not collect $200.” Now, we’ve yet to learn all the snafus that could cause a “Fade Warning 1”, so the typical cure isn’t yet clear.

    “Fade Warning 2” is an entirely different animal apparently. At this point, you’re starting to feel the heat from the blast. According to the video, if you get “Fade Warning 2”, it’s a lot of work and you need to go to the dealer. Of course, we don’t know all the causes of a “Fade Warning 2” yet, but it apparently includes a trip to the dealer and their computer that makes all things better. When you consider that trip is likely going to involve a roll-back, it’s easy to see how the second option can begin to get rather costly.


    Andy Bolig

    Andy has been intrigued by mechanical things all of his life and enjoys tinkering with cars of all makes and ages. Finding value in style points, he can appreciate cars of all power and performance levels. Andy is an avid railfan and gets his “high” by flying radio-controlled model airplanes when time permits. He keeps his feet firmly grounded by working on his two street rods and his supercharged C4 Corvette. Whether planes, trains, motorcycles, or automobiles, Andy has immersed himself in a world driven by internal combustion.
    .
    GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 22 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

  • #2
    This article is a major informative caution to those who are considering removing their calipers to have them painted or powder coated. If Lou and his team were challenged, 99.9% of the Corvette world would be. If painting your calipers, I again suggest your taping around them, painting in place with G2 or your other chosen high temperature caliper paint. Engine paint which is only rated to around 550 degrees F is not satisfactory for handling caliper heat (fire potential), for caliper paint is typically 850 degree and higher.
    GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 22 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

    Comment


    • #3
      Great suggestion on the caliper painting. Seems as though we are now seeing certain mechanical issues / concerns with the C8. I would imagine within months we will know them all. maybe, most of the issues

      Comment


      • #4
        Why didn’t they do a regular pressure bleed ? Am I missing something here? Need more info on this. We have not done a foot pumping brake bleed in years. Only used that method for a small bleed check .
        3LT Long Beach Red , Z51, FE4 , ZZ3, Black interior ,38S red stitching, Q8T, FA5, ER1, CFX, and R8C

        Comment


        • #5
          QUOTE=Racer86;n130474]Why didn’t they do a regular pressure bleed ? Am I missing something here? Need more info on this. We have not done a foot pumping brake bleed in years. Only used that method for a small bleed check . [/QUOTE]

          I think the article is pointing out the problems with doing it the way a typical owner would do it in their garage. And it sounds like even doing a "small bleed check" might introduce air into the system.

          The days of the "shade tree" mechanic are rapidly coming to an end. Anything beyond oil and filters is getting to the point where it requires special equipment, knowledge, or skills.

          I did like this comment from the article, though: "each one has varying levels of a mushroom cloud attached to them"

          Oh, on the brake warning 1 and 2 thing: From prior articles, I think these are mostly intended to warn of brake fade on the track, since you won't feel a long pedal any more. Brake warning 2 supposedly puts the car in limp mode, with a top speed of 55 mph until it's reset by the dealer.
          Last edited by meyerweb; 03-24-2020, 12:04 PM.
          SunKissed, my 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible (One of about 40)

          Purchased 5/2/2015,
          >36,000 miles

          Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club. Check us out http://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org

          Never grow up - It's a trap.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks John for the information. We will NOT have the calipers taken off. You can do the G2 paint system with the calipers on correct?

            Comment


            • #7
              This is a big deal to me. Doing HPDE requires fresh fluid on a regular basis. Now the cost has just gone up.
              Born Feb 26, 2020! GS7 Elkhart Lake Blue, Jet black/suede interior; Yellow stitching and belts. Z51 & Mag Ride; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6E yellow Calipers;

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sandyslu View Post
                Thanks John for the information. We will NOT have the calipers taken off. You can do the G2 paint system with the calipers on correct?
                That is how I have done two vehicles, and years later they look great. Taking the time to do an excellent job taping is the key. As meyerweb noted, there are good YouTube videos. Here’s one of them.

                GBA Black; HTO Twilight/Tension interior; Z51 & Mag Ride; E60 lift; 5VM visible carbon fiber package; 5ZZ high wing; FA5 interior vis CF; ZZ3 engine appearance; 3LT; Q8T Spectra Gray Tridents; J6N Edge Red Calipers; SNG Edge Red Hashmarks; VQK Splash Guards; RCC Edge Red engine cover; VJR illuminated sill plates. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 22 year members of National Corvette Museum. Home is the beautiful Pacific Northwest.

                Comment


                • #9
                  If GM says to do a pressure bleed, then what I've been doing for years should be the same thing. I have a one person brake bleeding system that uses my air compressor to create a vacuum at a hose that is attached to the brake bleeder.

                  After removing most of the fluid from the reservoir, but leaving enough so no air can be introduced into the system, I then fill with fresh fluid, Starting at the furthest away wheel, I attach the hose from the bleeder system to the bleeder, activate the vacuum, open the bleeder and watch for clean fluid to appear in the clear hose. I then close the bleeder, check and fill the reservoir, then do the other three.

                  GM says to pressure bleed, so what I'm doing is similar, just letting atmospheric pressure push the fluid through the system once the bleeder is open with a vacuum source at the bleeder.

                  One thing I like about this system, it creates no mess. When done properly, not one drop of brake fluid is spilled anywhere and all the old fluid ends up in the recovery tank. It doesn't require a second person and there's no pedal pushing involved.

                  Last summer I flushed all three of my cars, two non ABS and my 2006 HHR with ABS. I've never had any issues at all using this system and it's probably the best, cheapest tool I've ever bought. I've even used it for brake systems that had been drained and had lots of air in it, no issues.

                  Can anyone take a guess where I bought this brake bleeding system?

                  Cheers, PB
                  Previous Vettes '59, '61, 62. Current toys, 1973 Vega Wagon, SBC 355, 600hp and a GM LS1 powered 1992 Mazda Miata, aka Panic Button.

                  On order, 2020 C8 Corvette Stingray Coupe, 3LT, Z51, Elkhart Lake Blue Metallic, Full-Length Dual Racing Stripe, Jet Black Napa Leather with Adrenaline Red Stitch, Magnetic Ride, Front Lift, Chrome Exterior Badge Package, Battery Protection.

                  Current status, 3000, TPW 11/2 as of 9/82020.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Another way to flush and replace brake fluid is like a Power Bleeder
                    It replaces the brake filler cap and the PB tank is filled with new fluid

                    PB tank can be hand pumped to build up pressure or I added a valve stem and can use a air compressor

                    Simple then to crack the brake bleeder valve and pressure from PB will flow new fluid through

                    Also I do is with OBD-II scanner is connect to the ABS controller and send bi-directional commands to open each wheels ABS solenoid
                    to assure the fluid there flows and replaces fluid

                    Click image for larger version

Name:	powerbleeder.jpg
Views:	632
Size:	494.6 KB
ID:	130605


                    Click image for larger version

Name:	bi-dabs.jpg
Views:	638
Size:	332.9 KB
ID:	130604
                    Corvettes owned, wrenched on and raced since 1975:
                    1974,75,77,84,87,89,91,93,94 ZR-1 & 1999 Mallett 435

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Panic Button View Post
                      Can anyone take a guess where I bought this brake bleeding system?

                      Cheers, PB
                      Harbor Freight?
                      SunKissed, my 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible (One of about 40)

                      Purchased 5/2/2015,
                      >36,000 miles

                      Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club. Check us out http://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org

                      Never grow up - It's a trap.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by meyerweb View Post

                        Harbor Freight?
                        Yes, like it's a big surprise right? Less than $30 with a coupon!

                        I can't count how many times I've used it and it works great.

                        For the no mess method, I leave the trigger pulled so the vacuum will pull all the brake fluid into the reservoir when I close the bleeder and pull the hose off, never lose a drop.

                        I don't need to worry about having the correct lid or adapter for the reservoir either but the auto feeding bottle doesn't always have the correct adapter to hold it in place, so I end up just checking the level each time I do a wheel or two and fill as needed.

                        Cheers, PB

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	Harbor Freight Brake Bleeder.jpg
Views:	622
Size:	66.3 KB
ID:	130652
                        Previous Vettes '59, '61, 62. Current toys, 1973 Vega Wagon, SBC 355, 600hp and a GM LS1 powered 1992 Mazda Miata, aka Panic Button.

                        On order, 2020 C8 Corvette Stingray Coupe, 3LT, Z51, Elkhart Lake Blue Metallic, Full-Length Dual Racing Stripe, Jet Black Napa Leather with Adrenaline Red Stitch, Magnetic Ride, Front Lift, Chrome Exterior Badge Package, Battery Protection.

                        Current status, 3000, TPW 11/2 as of 9/82020.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I always pressure bleed or pressure flush as well, but with a pressurized cap adapter that connects to a regulated compressor air supply rather than a motive style system....

                          It looks like most modern chevrolets (and hopefully the C8) use the same euro-style master cylinder cap I already have the tool for, the PowerProbe BA05. Cheap and easy, and as mentioned, occasionally you need to use a computer to cycle the ABS valve if it got air in it (which is very unusual unless you replace the lines going to it or the abs valve itself).

                          The bigger question is how the adjustable feedback brake system works. If the brake "feel" is being altered in different modes, you probably can no longer simply trust the pedal to determine if you have some squish. Not exactly sure how the system works, but it isn't just a stone-axe simple hydraulic circuit anymore.

                          The pressure cap I use... super effective and easy. Flush/bleed one corner, check the level and fill as needed, flush/bleed next corner, etc. For a complete flush, you will need to add fluid once or twice. For a bleed, you can do all four corners and top off when done.

                          Click image for larger version  Name:	BA05.jpg Views:	0 Size:	29.8 KB ID:	130661
                          Last edited by pfbz; 03-24-2020, 06:51 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good info on the pressure bleeding and vacuum bleeding.

                            Any other mechanics out there find it hard to watch that video?

                            When doing a bleed, the hardest thing to get out are tiny bubbles.
                            The best way to introduce bubbles in the fluid is to pump the brakes.
                            The more times you pump the brake pedal before opening the bleed screw, the more bubbles you introduce.
                            DO NOT PUMP THE PEDAL.
                            Any bubbles left in the system causes higher amount of brake pedal travel before the brakes grab.

                            Manual bleeding can be every bit as effective as pressure or vacuum bleeding but it takes at least 2 people and usually takes a little longer.
                            As mentioned above, you might have to cycle some ABS valves open (manually or electronically, depending on the system) to get a proper bleed.
                            Correct manual bleed procedure is to:
                            1. Fill the reservoir and refill it every 3 or 4 bleeds or so -- do not let it get empty in either the front or the rear reservoir.
                            2. Sequence is to bleed the farthest caliper from the master cylinder to the closest one.
                            3. One single bleed involves: Push the pedal down and hold it down, open the bleed screw for a second or 2, close it, let the pedal up and wait 3 seconds for the master cylinder to refill past the cups from the reservoir. DO NOT PUMP THE PEDAL.
                            3. Repeat step 2 until only clean, bubble free fluid flows out. Remember to refill the reservoir every 3 or 4 bleeds.

                            This is a generic bleed procedure and there are many variations of brake system types.

                            Watching the video, I seriously doubt that there is a secret "2nd or rear" reservoir or chamber, probably just the normal 2 section reservoir with one section for the rear brakes and one for the front brakes.
                            TPW March 2. 3LT, Z51, FE4, Black GBA, ZZ3, Black interior with Red seats/red stitch HU0 & 2 tone TU7, E60, J6N, RIK, Q8Q, etc.
                            Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Neil H View Post
                              Any other mechanics out there find it hard to watch that video?
                              I honestly didn't watch it till the end. I could not figure out what he was doing by mashing the pedal like he was doing. I was just shaking my head the whole time, LOL.

                              Cheers, PB
                              Previous Vettes '59, '61, 62. Current toys, 1973 Vega Wagon, SBC 355, 600hp and a GM LS1 powered 1992 Mazda Miata, aka Panic Button.

                              On order, 2020 C8 Corvette Stingray Coupe, 3LT, Z51, Elkhart Lake Blue Metallic, Full-Length Dual Racing Stripe, Jet Black Napa Leather with Adrenaline Red Stitch, Magnetic Ride, Front Lift, Chrome Exterior Badge Package, Battery Protection.

                              Current status, 3000, TPW 11/2 as of 9/82020.

                              Comment

                              MECF_728x90_bottom

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X