Dual Clutch Transmission with a Foot & Hand" Manual Shift Alternative?

[SheepDog]

Mid-engine C8 Corvette could get clutch-by-wire manual transmission

Sean Szymkowski
0 CommentsSep 24, 2018


2020 Chevrolet Corvette (C8) spy shots - Image via S. Baldauf/SB-Medien

Chevrolet's worst-kept secret is the C8-generation mid-engine Corvette. We've heard a lot of rumors about the upcoming sports car with its engine mounted in the middle, but one has persisted: there won't be a manual transmission. That could change with a new patent General Motors has filed.

The patent was published on Sept. 6 with the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office and details an "electric slave cylinder for manually shifted vehicles." In layman's terms, it's a clutch-by-wire system that would replace hydraulic lines. Jalopnik reported last Friday this is exactly that kind of technology that could put a manual transmission in the C8 Corvette.



GM patent for clutch-by-wire transmission system

Typically, a manual transmission features a clutch pedal mounted to the firewall with a clutch master cylinder directly in front of it. A hydraulic line extends from the master cylinder to the clutch slave cylinder to activate the clutch. It's the analog way of doing things, and it's been the norm for decades. GM's patent, however, envisions a sensor mounted on the clutch pedal. The sensor would tell the electronic slave cylinder to move the clutch plate without the need for a hydraulic line to do the act physically.

This kind of solution would forego the need for a hydraulic line to be run to the rear of the car in the C8 Corvette. The electric slave cylinder could also give the computer control of the clutch. This would take away one of the most mundane and bothersome parts of driving a manual-equipped car: clutching in and out when stuck in traffic. The patent list this as a benefit.

Critics might say that a clutch-by-wire system may not have the feel of a hydraulic clutch. That is yet to be seen and it would depend on how well Chevrolet would program it. However, the electric system would allow for consistent clutch pedal feel throughout the life of the clutch, something that doesn't happen with a hydraulic clutch.

Automakers file to patent solutions often, and there's no guarantee we'll see a manual transmission make its way to the C8 Corvette. But a Corvette without a manual is almost like fries without the shake. Is it needed? No, but it's certainly more satisfying.

TAGS:
PATENT

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/...l-transmission

[SheepDog]

Does anyone out there know about this kind of thing, what is possible?
Could/Would the driver have both the 1. manual alternative and 2. duel clutch automatic alternative. If that is a yes then, great for Corvette.

The dual clutch allows a hand paddle shift manual mode alternative. Could that be hooked up to a twin-clutch with a by-wire virtual foot device? A virtual foot clutch by wire would be close to the real thing. Cross my fingers. But twin clutch is a sequential progression of one gear at a time, is it?

The classic clutch allows skipping gears.

[Frenzy36]

The above allows the driver to operate the clutch from the front of the vehicle which electronically engages the clutch as to its program or mapped RPM and MPH dependent on gear selection so it basically acts like a manual. It is not for the Dual Clutch Auto. Or is it ? With the above you would not be able to ride the clutch, you basically are giving it the command to engage. It selects the RPM and engagement process dependent on MPH on how the company programs or maps it. You could not miss-shift or tear apart your syncro-rings or screw up your throw-out bearing using this system. Probably with the wheel speed sensor giving the trans the info it needs you probably couldn't grenade the trans like you would be able in a conventional manual trans. Smart !

Somewhere in one of my previous posts suggested that they floor mount the micro switches on the floor to electronically shift the DCT with engagement of the gas pedal hitting the micro switch would upshift and releasing the gas pedal hitting the switch would downshift the Auto DCT. I always thought putting them on the steering wheel or column was insane as what if you are trying to shift on a hard turn or turns?

I'm sure there is a way to map out the DCT to do anything they want, that would be the reason for dropping the manual trans. The best race car driver in the world would not be able to shift in a millisecond as can be performed by the DCT.

[John]

I did confirm with one of our DCT experts, who has owned many of them in different brands, that some offer two step shifting, for example for third to fifth via blipping the paddle twice quickly — so skipping gears is allowed, again in some. We do not know for sure which tranny GM will be using, and thus we will later learn whether the ME allows skip shifting.

[Frenzy36]

I could see them mapping it out any way they like as the computer is only looking for the two distinct inputs which tells it to either drop 2 gears or raise two gears. The rest is allowed by Wheel Speed Sensor and RPM. If they are in the parameters then the trans allows it to happen.

The Future looks bright now that GM is stepping up their game. This DCT is going to be amazing ! I sympathize with those who would prefer a manual operated clutch, however Forward is the right direction. Not Backwards. Performance, MPG, Smoothness, Reliability is the way to go.

[Fasttoys]

John & Frenzy36 are correct

[JB]

What would be the benefit of these electronic dummy clutch pedals?

[SheepDog]

so

What would be the benefit of these electronic dummy clutch pedals?

When my kids were babies, I gave them pacifiers. Worked like a charm. And they grew and outgrew it. Maybe it will work the same way?

1. By-wire steering is enhanced to reality by artificial haptic feedback.
2. Exhaust sound is being flavored by amplification through the sound system.
3. Computer controlled everything else: stopping, going, turning, drift . . .

It would be a creative application of virtual tech, GM needs to be creative if it sells. Not universally cheered. I am not advocating. Just observing what seems to be there. If the gizmo would work similarly in a single clutch and in a twin clutch, then will they offer both. If they do offer a twin-clutch as the primary transmission option, then that might be it, if the gizmo feels the same in both. Or can be programed to feel the same.

[SheepDog]

Are we not on the cusp of transmission-experience mode selection options on a menu. Select your experience. Model T, fluid flow, hydro-matic, 4 in the floor, single or twin clutch, 40s, 50s, 60s, or whatever experience on a menu or download app.

A flexible menu may be more profitable than multiple hardware options and familiar to younger people too. So it looks like a menu of what people want.

[Frenzy36]

Bugatti has one of the strongest

[Frenzy36]

what would be the benefit of these electronic dummy clutch pedals?

s p e e d

[Ronstar]

What would be the benefit of these electronic dummy clutch pedals?

They are not "dummy" clutch pedals. If I understand correctly it is an actual clutch,controlling an actual manual tranny, just electronically controlled instead of fluid. The technology has been around for a long time. Its used by the cranes I operate(and many other things) to control the valves by wire or remote in the case of my crane. they operate fully proportionally just like a "real valve". GM could make it feel and operate exactly like a traditional clutch if that is the goal.The only difference is instead of hydraulic fluid going thru a line to operate the slave, the signal woud be sent by wire to a "valve" to operate the slave.

[Racer86]

For those that think they want a manual transmission because they think they want to skip gears, a DCT will shift 3 gears faster than they can skip shift one gear by hand. We have downloaded the data in actual racing to prove this is true in most all cases. Just my opinion, your opinion may differ

[SheepDog]

For those that think they want a manual transmission because they think they want to skip gears, a DCT will shift 7 gears faster than they can skip shift one gear by hand. We have downloaded the data in actual racing to prove this is true in most all cases. Just my opinion, your opinion may differ

For performance applications and efficiency purposes, the manual tranny is horse-and-buggy in a double clutch world. For some nostalgics, the coachwhip, the feed-sack, and water-trough have a value that drafts performance and efficiency. I take no position. Just speculating as to which is what in our world of diverse wisdom and joy.