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  • #31
    I totally agree with you. Thank you for saying it as well as you did.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by SheepDog View Post
      GM is officially silent on the ME. Silence causes speculation. Could be that there is nothing to be said. Hope so. The Corvette team's energy and resource will be only in the C8, we should hope. If they intended to carry the C7 forward anyway, then juice it as necessary. If the C7 is dead, then bury it. Put all resources on the C8. If there are additional money and man-power available to juice something, then juice the C8 with that excess stuff.
      That would made too much sense. The only thing that I know for a fact is that I don't have all the facts and understanding of the marketing environment

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Maxster View Post

        That would made too much sense. The only thing that I know for a fact is that I don't have all the facts and understanding of the marketing environment
        From the outside there is no way to know. The decision makers have their own information. They are not talking. GM is a big plate. The business is in transition. Regulatory instability and trade uncertainty.

        A little delay as seen by one is the perfecting of timeliness as seen by another. So maybe everything is fine and nothing need disclosure.

        With a new product like the C8 ME is there a "usual" by which to measure. Is anything unusual in the way it is going anyway. With so much uncertainty in a new product, with the high quality of established competition, and given the need to be the best, there can be no time table except getting each piece and the package as perfect as can be.

        So those guys are on the job getting it right in the right amount of time.
        Last edited by SheepDog; 01-06-2019, 09:16 PM.

        Comment


        • #34
          SheepDog, cannot disagree with you. Perhaps not what I would prefer to hear but realistic. The electric system issue might have been a hoax

          Comment


          • #35
            I keep thinking back to the sales numbers posted for 2 seat sports cars like the acura nsx...

            wow...if that failure to achieve unit sales didnt shake every auto executive i dont know what would,

            un belevable utter failure.

            the audi R8 has become a lame duck as well.

            not to suggest its a rear mid engine event...

            the jaguar f type? Even with a full engine lineup ranging from 4 cylinder turbo to supercharged v8 including v6 s...and awd...this feline is sales proof.

            the old axiom of measure twice cut once rings loudly...

            there are very few second chances ...


            the botched dodge viper launch still rings loudly as well...

            that should have been a slam dunk win...

            thankfully dodge reacted wuickly with the aging yet nearly free challenger and charger platform with the crazy hellcat powerplant...

            that was a well done save although im hearing inventory buildup has become more the norm even with the latest and greatest.

            the speed of todays news etc has literally shortened the life cycle of even the coolest cars...







            Last edited by JB; 01-06-2019, 10:32 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Good points about the NSX JB ... what a disaster that has to be for Acura. I have a gen 1 NSX and it's great, the new car, after all the hype, left me flat. It comes across as MEH, and the one I looked at had an MSRP of $201K. No way ... thx.

              The F-type is nice, but no wow factor for me, and I'm guessing others see it that way too. When you see one going down the road, it has no immediate connection to the Jag legacy, if you know what I'm trying to convey.

              That is why I hope the C8 has the styling cues that tie it back to the "Vette look". It needs to be quickly recognizable as a Corvette. The renders that FVS/Chaz/BDS have done gives me that hope.

              The GM game plan? No flipping idea! The "we can't acknowledge new product developments or words to that effect" is total baloney in the internet dominated world we live in. Acknowledge the car ... If it isn't ready, wait until it is ... have it look like a vette ... and keep the price within reason. They'll sell a ton of them.

              Comment


              • #37
                Exactly, and couple that with the NSX being $30,000 overpriced, that further killed it. GM watched the NSX gen 2 epic fail, majorly for that reason, and is well aware of the pitfalls of too high a price.

                Interesting that our Fasttoys drove a gen 2 NSX and said that while it was “perfect” (paraphrasing here), it was “perfectly boring” as a consequence, “not a car that inspired any driving passion.”

                I second that, that a car need to be exciting, even if that means it is 5% raw and a minority might say “unrefined.” All our cars must be excting to drive. My DD, 2017 WRX has the worst throttle mapping (so non-linear), typo all of a sudden comes on, and is harshly rally-car-sprung, and that is exactly why I love, LOVE it. I am not interesting in driving my sofa anywhere.
                So many questions about the ME right now; so few answers yet.

                Excited owners of a 2015 Z06. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 20 year members of NCM. A 2020 ME C8 Corvette is coming next.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by John View Post
                  IMO, perhaps because 22% of Corvette buyers love a manual trans, and could most of the convertible lovers like their totally flat deck convertibles (do not want a HT ‘very with big buttresses).
                  Probably a different topic John, but I like the traditional convertible look. IMHO Ferrari 360 and 430 convertibles were a bit odd looking to me. Good with the top down, not so good with the top up. I'm not a big fan of the "buttresses" either, but if the C8 has a targa, as we think it does, problem solved on a couple of fronts for me. Still get the open roof experience and it will be less expensive. Can't get that in a 458 or 488. Maybe the buttress look will grow on me ... well then gotta pay more, but that's ok.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JBsC6 View Post
                    I keep thinking back to the sales numbers posted for 2 seat sports cars like the acura nsx...

                    wow...if that failure to achieve unit sales didnt shake every auto executive i dont know what would,

                    un belevable utter failure.

                    the audi R8 has become a lame duck as well.

                    not to suggest its a rear mid engine event...

                    the jaguar f type? Even with a full engine lineup ranging from 4 cylinder turbo to supercharged v8 including v6 s...and awd...this feline is sales proof.

                    the old axiom of measure twice cut once rings loudly...

                    there are very few second chances ...


                    the botched dodge viper launch still rings loudly as well...

                    that should have been a slam dunk win...

                    thankfully dodge reacted wuickly with the aging yet nearly free challenger and charger platform with the crazy hellcat powerplant...

                    that was a well done save although im hearing inventory buildup has become more the norm even with the latest and greatest.

                    the speed of todays news etc has literally shortened the life cycle of even the coolest cars...






                    I think even in this internet world that if a car had a real classic design it might last even today. Then again attention spans seem awfully short.
                    There is a madness to my method!

                    2015 Z06 Torch/adrenaline
                    2001 coupe Torch/oak R8C
                    79 coupe Silver/oyster
                    All one owner
                    Museum lifetime members

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by John View Post
                      There is one nice postive about the C8 now probably being delayed, for I have just come to that conclusion emotionally, but again not based on fact, but the preponderance of info.

                      For those of us who save up for our new Corvette and pay in full in cash, I could consequently around a year from now, get a new, but not 100% loaded, entry year C8 and still keep my C7 Z06. Tempting; very tempting
                      Well worth keeping John.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by John View Post
                        Exactly, and couple that with the NSX being $30,000 overpriced, that further killed it. GM watched the NSX gen 2 epic fail, majorly for that reason, and is well aware of the pitfalls of too high a price.

                        Interesting that our Fasttoys drove a gen 2 NSX and said that while it was “perfect” (paraphrasing here), it was “perfectly boring” as a consequence, “not a car that inspired any driving passion.”

                        I second that, that a car need to be exciting, even if that means it is 5% raw and a minority might say “unrefined.” All our cars must be excting to drive. My DD, 2017 WRX has the worst throttle mapping (so non-linear), typo all of a sudden comes on, and is harshly rally-car-sprung, and that is exactly why I love, LOVE it. I am not interesting in driving my sofa anywhere.
                        As an Acura owner for my daily driver, I was really disappointed that the NSX was SOOOOOO overpriced. I got the impression that they were trying to only sell it to "exclusive" buyers and not price it so that it drew in existing customers. Only seeing one at car shows, it is a nice car, but if they were able to sell them in the $80k to $90k range, I think they would have had a hard time keeping up with production orders. I have a local and very large Acura dealer that does not and I don't think ever has has had one on the lot. No wonder sales were so unimpressive. Hoping the C8 doesn't suffer the same type of fate.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          There was a NSX in a dealership south of where I live. They were so excited and immediately added $50,000 market adjustment to its price, bringing it to $258,000. They loved the workmanship of the car (deserved) so much that they immediately ordered a second one, and no surprise as to what they did to it when it arrived, e.g., adding +$50,000, but since it had way fewer options, I think it was around $225,000 out the door. A friend went in who loves to price negotiate. He is a master at it. And he loves the looks fo the car. After wasting an hour of his time, they would not budge in their +$50K on either.

                          As his SO lives in that town, he went back to the dealership periodically, 99% to play them, and finally, six months later they said to him, “as long as you tell no one else, we will reduce it to $25K over sticker.”

                          And he walked and now this game was even more fun for him, for he truly loves the car; in November with the price now at sticker, he got them to offer him a $10K discount below that if he took the car today. Well, in the interim, due to renderings, he is not interested in anything other than the C8. One of their two finally sold, though on the other NSX they are still asking for sticker plus something around $5,000. Good luck.

                          Can you imagine the flooring charges for roughly two NSX’s for a year, with one still there by now around 15 months inside the dealership?
                          So many questions about the ME right now; so few answers yet.

                          Excited owners of a 2015 Z06. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 20 year members of NCM. A 2020 ME C8 Corvette is coming next.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Fireeagle View Post

                            As an Acura owner for my daily driver, I was really disappointed that the NSX was SOOOOOO overpriced. I got the impression that they were trying to only sell it to "exclusive" buyers and not price it so that it drew in existing customers. Only seeing one at car shows, it is a nice car, but if they were able to sell them in the $80k to $90k range, I think they would have had a hard time keeping up with production orders. I have a local and very large Acura dealer that does not and I don't think ever has has had one on the lot. No wonder sales were so unimpressive. Hoping the C8 doesn't suffer the same type of fate.
                            I can only conclude that the NSX factory build process is inflexible, a one trick pony. And, because of inflexibility, NSX can not build any other variant of the current car, than the one we see. Otherwise! They would build a variant that ditches three things: 1. the electric power train component, 2. the extra 1000 pounds weight and , 3. $60,000 of the price. Even do it as an experiment. Build 1000 and see what the response is.

                            *item "3. $60,000 of the price" or the reduced price that works on their books which might even be more*

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              There are stories about Ferrari and Porsche and some others making very large profit per individual car. That may be an erroneous and unfortunate ego challenger to other talented car makers. Ferrari, Porsche and McLaren make multiple editions of over the top cars. Exclusive and small in numbers but extreme in performance and details. That is more of an art-mobile market. There is a history, focus, dedication and commitment that allows them to gouge. McLaren's on a roll. What's next. Oh, So soon. Wow! They got Issac Newton working in a worm hole for them?

                              Not every Boxer is a Floyd Mayweather. NSX is not Ferrari even if it is better. It is a Mustang, even if it is better.

                              Now. What is C8? Is it Mustang? Is it Ferrari? Does better matter? And, Oh. I have no opinion.
                              Last edited by SheepDog; 01-07-2019, 05:24 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Carscoop is quoting this wonderful rear mid engine corvette site in potiential c8 reveal in 2020...and the possibility of a front mid engine for 2020 as well..

                                just for fun i recommend reading this article.

                                https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/ne...iant-imminent/

                                Originally posted by CarScoops
                                New GM Codes Indicate C8 Corvette, Or New C7 Variant, Is Imminent

                                BY BRAD ANDERSON | POSTED ON JANUARY 7, 2019
                                A pair of interesting model codes from General Motors have leaked online, indicating that the Chevrolet C8 Corvette will be sold as a 2020 model, or that a final C7-based Corvette will arrive before the new mid-engine model.

                                The codes, 1YC07 and 1YC67, were published online by the Mid Engine Corvette Forum and represent the first five digits of the vehicles VIN numbers. The codes of existing C7 Corvette models all start with 1Y but then vary depending on the model. For example, the Stingray Coupe is 1YY while the Grand Sport is 1YW, the Z06 is 1YZ, and the range-topping ZR1 Coupe and Convertible both wear 1YV.

                                What none of the current Corvette models feature is a VIN starting in 1YC.



                                This means one of two things. The first possibility is that the codes refer to the C8 Corvette which we know is coming but have differing reports about when exactly we will see it. Alternatively, the codes may signify a final C7 Corvette that will be offered in both Coupe and Convertible guises. We think the latter is the most likely.

                                While the first six digits of the model codes of C7 Corvette variants change, what remains consistent across the broad is that the fourth and fifth digits are either ’07’ or ’67’. The first of those is used by Coupe models while ’67’ is featured on Convertible versions. As both the 1YC07 and 1YC67 codes are for 2020 models, they may not in fact refer to the C8 because it seems unlikely the new supercar will be sold in Coupe and Convertible forms at the very start of its production run.

                                Whatever the case may be, we know that we are in for a very exciting couple of years.

                                In-page rendering copyright Carscoops / Josh Byrnes
                                Last edited by John; 01-07-2019, 10:34 PM. Reason: Included article within post for easier reading/access. Thank you very much JBsC6 for bringing this article to our attentionl

                                Comment

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