GM Authority are Mid-engine skeptics

[P-Tree]

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...e-corvette-c8/

Interesting slant from GM Authority. They seem to have minimal faith that the C8 will produce sales. While biased in my enthusiasm for an affordable mid-engine car, I believe that they're way off the mark here with their analysis. Surprisingly, it's actually the most negative take on the C8 I've seen.

[SheepDog]

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...e-corvette-c8/

Interesting slant from GM Authority. They seem to have minimal faith that the C8 will produce sales. While biased in my enthusiasm for an affordable mid-engine car, I believe that they're way off the mark here with their analysis. Surprisingly, it's actually the most negative take on the C8 I've seen.

Perhaps, the writer is merely saying something that is there to be said: a low probability scenario. The writer is saying that if the McLaren 570S was named Corvette and cost $70K it would not sell at the rate the C6 and C7 sold. He is playing in low probability with no money on the bet. He would not bet a years pay on his prediction. But can say it for clicks.

Of course a 570S in space frame not carbon fiber.

[John]

Yes, it was a super negative article. It has lots of “facts” that IMO they are wrong on, somethings they will learn during the reveal, e.g., cargo capacity, cabin size, etc.

A lot of the naysayers are going to be surprised as soon as 40 days from now. However, their essential thesis that there will not be enough ME buyers to sustain BGA production, that we will not know for years.

I will absolutely agree with their last sentence.

or perhaps they know something that we don’t. Here’s to hoping for the latter.

GM Authority you are correct in that one sentence that they do know a lot that you do not, that General Motors, most of the Corvette faithful, and an extremely large number of new to Corvette “brand conquests (the holy grail fo the automotive world) do know better, and collectively this will insure that there is a C9, C10 and latter.

Wait until, as just two specifics, the total cargo capacity and the interior capacity and dimensions are publicly shared.

[Plasboy]

I sure don’t feel that the author is correct but just for fun I’m going to bring it up at our Corvette Club meeting tomorrow and see what response I get.

[455SDguy]

Judging by the reader comments attached to the GMAuthority article Mr. Lopez just lost a few thousand readers for GMAuthority.

[meyerweb]

None of us have done any real market research. Including, I strongly suspect, the writer of that story. GM, OTOH, I bet has done a lot of market research. They didn't decide to add a second shift to the plant in the absence of solid data, so unless they're going to build a completely separate model in addition to the C8, I think they must be pretty confident about sales projections.

Weill they lose some traditional Corvette buyers? Almost certainly. But I bet a lot of those buyers won't be buying many, if any, more Corvettes. Or many more cars, period. I was at a Corvette show today. 150 cars, and I think the median age was well over 65. I'd bet a good 3/4 of the people there were retired.

OTOH, Will GM gain buyers who look at more modern designs like the Boxster and Cayman, or would love to buy a Ferrari, Lambo or Aston Martin, and never considered the C7? (Not to denigrate the C7, which is a thoroughly modern design, but which many shoppers probably see as "just another Corvette, not all that different from the C6 or C5.") I think they will, and GM seems to think so, too.

[John]

Supporting your analysis meyerweb, are the five major social economic factors that GM faced and evaluated before deciding to move from a traditional FE configuration to a ME — all to attract new to the brand and especially younger brand conquests. The five are:

1) Average age of a current C7 buyer is 61 years of age;
2) 61+ is approaching retirement with almost all retirees experience a moderate to significant income loss at that point (e..g, will be buying fewer sports cars in the future);
3) 61+ is a medical increasing likelihood of folks not being able to get into or out of a sports car as easily as they did 20 years earlier, i.e., I an d probably all know someone who for medical reasons either already abandoned their sports cars or their current Corvette is their last;
4) Two brand new sports cars this year, and our competitors keep upping their game, e.g., so must Corvette
5) All the above together result in the number of annual sports cars being bought is annually on the decline. Many who previously bought sports cars want to now haul the grandkids around, so instead they are turning to 500 HP SUV’s instead.

[JB]

Creating controversy in a headline and an article garners viewership.

i like the kids over at gm authority and they have little inside information...they just create interesting perspectives that wrangle the corvette faithful in this instance with some insults...

there are those that have worried for decades that rear mid engine vehicles can not meet a larger audiences desires long term...

i would suggest thats not true...

i believe with enough performance and good looks not to mention excellent value...this c8 will have a production run that almost jever meeds incentives..

in fact I predict price upgrades through the years...even with the standard model...

could I be wrong? Of course...yet my gut says this c8 will be a home run right out of the gate and continue to be one throughout the entire generation...

this new c8 will not only entice c5 , c6 and c7 owners to open their wallets for many years to come..

conquest sales will be massive throughout the production run..

win win for us...and win win for GM.

[Milliwatt Rob]

When I was 20 years old in 1967, I attended a race at Watkins Glen and saw Mark Donahue racing a Sunoco sponsored Penske Lola T70. I immediately wanted a V8 powered mid engine car for the street.

It only took 52 years for GM to develop one that I might be able to afford and enjoy.

I think the only valid point in the article is about cargo space. Being a roadster owner who used to go on vacations on a motorcycle (without a trailer), I can make do with limited cargo space. That is what my BMW X5 is for. But the two golf bag crowd may be challenged.

[John]

Please let us stop worrying about the ME’s cargo space. What if it is actually more than the C7’s in both the coupe and convertible versions? I sure do not know that for a fact, but let us trust “Maximum Bob” when he twice publicly said GM has the cargo space issue for the ME solved.

Any last doubts? If so, realize that whereas the C7’s coupe space has 15 cubic feet, the brand new McLaren 600 GT lists its cargo capacity at 20.1 cubic feet.

Perhaps however the two golf bag set could have an issue?

[VetteStromWing]

The only cargo space I need is to get my helmets, tool box, overnight bag, 2 lawn chairs, canopy, and cooler to the track. 90% of my mileage is on the track. About 1/2 of the street miles are to and from the track. Seriously, why would someone need all this power otherwise, for the freeway on ramp?
This is not intended to be a sarcastic post, and I hope it doesn't come across that way. I'd appreciate some feedback from street only owners. Especially those who don't track their Vette and have a Z06 or ZR1.
I'm holding out for 2021, or for whenever a Z06 type variant is available, but that's because of what I do with this car.
Pleasure travel is on one of my two motorcycles.
thx.

[ltomn]

I own a pickup truck for around town excursions and various other things. I am anxiously awaiting a C8 for the thrill of it! Nothing else! I have it on good report that the C8 will hold a full set of C7 luggage. That is enough for me when November rolls around and I want to blow out of the snowy north country for several months. My 25 lbs. dog can sit on the front seat and everything else for months will either be in the car or unnecessary.

[tooold2race]

I guess I agree with GM Authority on this one.... I just came back from Texas Motor Speedway where they had close to 100 Corvettes for driver introduction and a parade lap. After that, many came into the Speedway Club and the grandstands in front of it. It looked like a field trip from a senior citizens center! I'm 73 and I can say these folks were 'old'.... When I commented on the special knee high support hose and the difficulty so many had with the stairs, my daughter wondered out loud about their ability to get in and out of their Corvettes.

I'm not knocking the 'old folks' with Corvettes. I am one. The reality is that many of 'em will not be buying another Corvette, FE or ME. This in my face experience just caused me to 'pause' and wonder out loud, who's going to be the target market for the ME C8??? It sure as hell isn't me and my peers (although many of us are on various 'lists' with cash on the line already). When have you NOT heard the Corvette brand folks talking about attracting the younger buyers??? When I talk with my friends who have Aston Martins, Ferrari's, Lambo's and Mac's, about Corvettes, they all speak very positively about the capabilities of the car and the value. When I ask if they'd consider one, virtually all of 'em say NO..... it's an 'old mans' car. So much for 'conquest' sales.

Performance and value will go a long way to wining over new buyers to the brand, but the 'image' of the old man behind the wheel is going to be really, really difficult to overcome. A $70K price tag on a ME performance car will attract some, but I don't think that number will be (and I hate this word) sustainable..... ie: two shifts and 30,000 units per year much beyond the first 1 or 2 model years. Maybe they're counting on a bunch from the Mustang, Camero and Challenger crowd coming over at some point, as they start hitting their 50's, and have some money in their pockets (and, hopefully, their student loans behind them).

IMO that's why the FE will make a re-appearance as a facelifted touring model for the '21 or '22 model year. Maybe, as one of my friends put it, Corvette needs an SUV to keep the old timers in the fold. They sure aren't going to be getting in line for C8's.... especially if there are any stairs in front of the door to the Chevy store.

[meyerweb]

Well, we'll see. I think the more "exotic" design will change some minds. The average age of Porsche 911 buyers is 52, and Boxster / Cayman buyers 47. So there's certainly plenty of relatively younger people who can afford a C8. The three Porsche models sell about 13K to 15K a year combined in spite of actual sales prices that are way higher than the Corvette (even for the Boxster / Cayman) because of the price of options and the inability to buy one that isn't larded up with options.

And I really don't think the issue with Ferrari, Lambo, et al owners is that the Corvette is an "old man's car," no matter what the owners say. I remember one owner on another forum talking about Ferrari owners not taking his C7 seriously because GM still sold them with chrome wheels. I think both comments are an excuse because they won't admit the real reason: a Corvette doesn't scream "look at me, I'm rich." Aside from that, GM isn't going to make the C8 a success by converting Ferrari owners. Ferrari sells about 2500 cars a year in the US. Lamborghini about 1,000. While I'm sure GM would like to win over some of those owners, those aren't the people who are going to drive C8 sales, and GM won't cry if Ferrari owners still look down their noses at Corvettes.

And reintroducing an FE 'vette would only compound the "old man's car" image, so that seems like the last thing GM would do.

[John]

tooold2race,

Actually, your presentation is the antithesis of GM Authority’s, for it accentuates that GM had to do a massive jump shift to replace those aging Corvette buyers with much younger brand conquests who want something radically different, e.g., the mid engine Corvette.

Had GM kept on with the front engine look, and with the average buyer of a new Corvette being now 61 years of age, there would be no C9 — for we all know those medically have already had abandon all sports cars (including C7’s), others due to retirement Corvette could not even afford a C7 — all collectively heading down that old, ME path leading directly to the Corvette becoming extinct.

Hence why GM is doing the radical and needed change to the very different looking, appealing to younger buyers, C8. How do you get the image of the old man Corvette to change?

Bring out a car that appeals to and is bought buy, a much younger buyer.

Lastly, re your nearly last sentence, that many old timers are not lining up for the C8, I respectfully disagree with that, for look at this forum’s members, with more than a few into their eighties. I am 72, I have friends on this forum who are 73 and 74, and they both can not wait to buy their C8.