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Headers vs Cat delete pipe

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  • Headers vs Cat delete pipe

    Lots of noise on the web about the cat delete pipe being as good of a performance mod vs Headers... Anyone with experience with both mods know better . The 2 inch Jethot Coated ARH with these are about a 37-45 rwhp hp mod in the times I had installed them on the Corvette's then dyno tuned.
    Some are off base and say the cat delete pipe is as just as good.
    Anyone with real car experience from about 40 plus years of modding know this is absolutely untrue.

    They also change the factory xpipe with cats and add an aftermarket x-pipe.
    Then call the two mods the together as a gain for the cat delete pipe. When even though it is two mods they call it as one. I personally have also seen the cat delete aftermarket x-pipe mod on Corvettes on the dyno they do not keep up with headers nor do they sound as good.
    The coated headers also enjoy a cooler temps under the hood. In concert with the cooler running 2300. I drive around temps about 10-15 degree' cooler than stock.


  • #2
    It's to early to know cost and mod options for the C8. That said and acknowledged, it OK to guesstimate. How much cost will get increase HP in the C8? 50HP. 60HP.? Easy gain. harder gain? Increased overall performance?

    First, a guesstimate on exhaust mods: what likely options and cost.
    Second: turbo or supercharge?
    Third: engine internals.
    4th: suspension.
    5th: Wheels and tires
    6th: Other mods
    7th: what or which is [and is not} a void of warranties?

    What loose predictions off the top of the head and experience serves, anybody?
    Last edited by SheepDog; 05-29-2019, 01:05 PM.

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    • #3
      One thing I do know if GM incorporates this New Electrical Architecture into the C8 that they have announced will definitely be in some of the Cadillac's for 2020 and rumored to be in the C8. Altering anything as far as performance with aftermarket performance products may and most likely will be ECU unfriendly.

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      • #4

        Motor Authority says the C8 is reportedly untunable, maybe.

        Sean Szymkowski May 29, 2019


        The aftermarket may have a tough go with the mid-engine 2020 Chevrolet C8 Corvette.

        The mid-engine sports car has a "unique encrypted ECU system," according to a Tuesday report from Muscle Cars & Trucks. Per the report, any changes in the pursuit of more horsepower to the ECU will be a difficult task, if not impossible.


        2020 Chevrolet Corvette (C8) spy shots - Image via S. Baldauf/SB-Medien
        2020 Chevrolet Corvette (C8) spy shots - Image via S. Baldauf/SB-Medien

        It's worth noting the 2020 Corvette will likely be one of the many new cars from General Motors to use the automaker's new electrical architecture, which has been floated as one of many reasons why the car was subject to delays. The "digital architecture" not only boosts output for future in-car technologies but also puts a major focus on cybersecurity. The latter is reportedly one of the major roadblocks to ECU tuning.

        In the event re-programming fails, the mid-engine Corvette will enter a "recovery mode." Like a rolling computer, the car will need to be rebooted. Those who don't have the resources to restore the car's ECU will be left with a "bricked" sports car, sources said.


        2020 Chevrolet Corvette
        2020 Chevrolet Corvette

        ECU tuning is often an essential means of squeezing more power from a car. It can be as simple as unlocking more power from the parts that are already there or retuning to match new parts, including new or larger turbochargers or superchargers. Yet, where there's a will, there's a way. That way may involve a few bricked mid-engine Corvettes along the way. The Corvette has always been a prized car for aftermarket companies to tinker with. This time, they may not be able to crack into the ECU and if they can they will have to be careful not to brick the C8.

        The 2020 Corvette will—finally—debut on July 18 in California. The common thought has been that the car will come with an upgraded version of the Corvette's current pushrod 6.2-liter V-8 making about 500 horsepower. However, the Muscle Cars & Trucks story expects the engine at launch to be a dual-overhead cam V-8 called LT-2. It was previously speculated that a DOHC V-8 with a flat-plane crank would come later and make about 600 hp. Rumors also suggest a twin-turbocharged V-8 and even a hybrid powertrain are on the table. The latter could sport all-wheel drive with its electrified running gear.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by SheepDog View Post
          It's to early to know cost and mod options for the C8. That said and acknowledged, it OK to guesstimate. How much cost will get increase HP in the C8? 50HP. 60HP.? Easy gain. harder gain? Increased overall performance?

          First, a guesstimate on exhaust mods: what likely options and cost.
          Second: turbo or supercharge?
          Third: engine internals.
          4th: suspension.
          5th: Wheels and tires
          6th: Other mods
          7th: what or which is [and is not} a void of warranties?

          What loose predictions off the top of the head and experience serves, anybody?
          Used to be sizable gains with headers, but just like intake systems, the OEMs are now smartly stock engineering every morsel of power they can out of them. Of course OEMs do have some things that work against them, such durability and emissions and fuel economy, but even then, there is IMO very little to be gained from either unless one is going to also tune the motor.

          However over time, GM’s engineers also learned more, e.g., the 2018 announced, factory-warranty-compatible new performance intake system which developed between 0 HP more in the Stingray all the way up to 17 more HP in the ZR1.

          Since we are allowed to guess, I believe that we will only have one 2020 one performance option, option code NPP, “performance exhaust,” and that it too would be worth another 5 HP for the LT2. Cost will not be separately identified nor purchasable IMO, as it would be part of the $5,000 Z-51 package (with suspension, eLSD, and many other upgrades).

          Also guessing, I am thinking the LT2 will produce, 507 HP, 503 TQ (not even a scientific but a wild ___ guess).

          No internal engine mods available from GM, nor anyone else the first year unless someone finds a way to hack into the ECU — and then bye, bye warranty.

          There will however be the typical claims of greater HP though lower restrictive air intake systems. Maybe even dyno results on those.

          Guessing that there will be about six months after the car starts to get into exhaust company hands, that there will be dyno results of 5-10 more HP from their less restrictive cat back mufflers. (But those pulling cats, not just emissions issues but also warranty issues come into play.

          Tires and wheels I expect to see about two/three months after the cars arrive in customer hands, but unless we are talking about all carbon fiber wheels, the consequences of improving performance are minuscule IMO>

          And lastly, the typical smaller crank pulleys will become available roughly the same three months later.

          Excited owners of a 2015 Z06. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 20 year members of NCM. Our 2020 ME C8 Corvette is next.

          Comment


          • #6
            The manufacturers of catless x-pipes for the C7 only claim about 5 - 10 HP gains. A good set of headers and matching exhaust, and a tune that takes advantage of them, will get you far more than that. The C8 exhaust is going to be more interesting. There's not much distance between the heads and the mufflers, so I doubt there's any sort of x-pipe there, and I wonder if there's room for 4 cats like on the C7. There may be only one per side, and if so removing it would definitely throw a code (on the C7 you can remove the smaller secondary cats without a code, but not the main ones). I think playing with the exhaust and keeping it streetable is going to be harder on the C8, especially if what we're hearing about the encrypted ECU is true.

            Catback systems seem to work fine on the C7 without changing the ECU. Probably not ideal, but acceptable. The same may be true for the C8.

            Any aftermarket headers will likely need to include, or retain compatibility with, catalytic converters. A cat back system might be the most cost effective solution to getting more sound, but probably not a lot more HP.

            Of course, I'm neither an automotive engineer nor an exhaust specialist, so I'm waiting just like everyone else to see what the reality is.

            Regarding NPP, that option is available as a standalone on "base" model C7s, and I would expect it to be the same on the C8. It seems to be a very popular option. Almost everyone I know who has bought a Corvette in the last few years has the NPP, even if they don't have a Z51. GS, or Z06.
            Last edited by meyerweb; 05-29-2019, 03:20 PM.
            SunKissed, my 2015 2LT, 7MT, Black over Daytona Sunrise Orange Metallic, Stingray convertible (One of about 40)

            Purchased 5/2/2015,
            >31,000+ miles

            Proud member of the Old Dominion Corvette Club. Check us out http://www.olddominioncorvetteclub.org

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you meyerweb.
              Excited owners of a 2015 Z06. Lifetime, annual contributors, and 20 year members of NCM. Our 2020 ME C8 Corvette is next.

              Comment

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